Libya, Yemen, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait...

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Ferd

IC in no way reflects on WPR. period. I wont get into IC here. suffice it to say, there was not enough to convict RR on the issue. Nothing else really matters.

As for Grenada, pretext was all that was needed.

The WPR specifically spells out when and how a presdient can act prior to statutory authority from Congress. In fact that is what the WPR is all about.

Please see from my post § 1541 (C)(3):
The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to
(3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.

This has been interpreted as any American or American territory being attacked or in a position to be attacked. That is the precident. This is what Obama lacked.

Not sure how Grenada fit any of that pretext.

Not sure how Libya does right now either.

Neither presented national emergencies, created by attack on US territories or armed forces. I very much am not supportive of intervention strategies without the consent of Congress. WPR was not created to give the President more power, it was created to limit the CIC power -- it was a reaction to the Vietnam Conflict.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Not sure how Grenada fit any of that pretext.

Not sure how Libya does right now either.

Neither presented national emergencies, created by attack on US territories or armed forces. I very much am not supportive of intervention strategies without the consent of Congress. WPR was not created to give the President more power, it was created to limit the CIC power -- it was a reaction to the Vietnam Conflict.

i disagree on Grenada... the rest we agree on.

however, here is the dirty little secret. No president is in any serious jepordy over WPR because congress is afraid it is unconstitutional and unless they are willing to impeach with 70%+ of congress agreeing, it aint gonna happen.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Hannity today... picks some eye candy and a hillbilly congressman to gang up on Jerry Springer.

Arguments: Obama needs congressional approval, even W got Congressional approval.

What's not included in the argument:
Ronald Reagan had two foreign invasions where Congressional approval was never gained, but still heralded as greatest Republican Prez since Lincoln.

My thoughts on Obama:

I appreciate the slow, cautious, calculated response. I also appreciate the desire to gain international community alignment given the situation (Muslim nation).

I don't like the entire idea, however, of us intervening in Libya, and don't see a big enough US stake here. I also agree Congressional approval should be required.

I agree with the bolded point. The fact of the matter is, "oil" really has little to do with the US/NATO intervention. Gaddafi was already selling his oil on the open market at market prices. Whoever takes his place will do the same. Our only real interest is in seeing that Libya's oil resources are not used to fund terrorism.

I didn't like the dawdling by Obama's admin, however. A big push early would have probably ended this whole thing by now and we'd only be left wondering who the new guys were. Also, we must have some people on the ground with the "rebels." We need to be coordinating with them, cultivating them toward at least a benign outlook toward the West and we need to be understanding just who they are and what their goals are.

I probably agree with a lot of Hannity's positions but I can't really tell for certain. I hate the way he lets his talking heads go at each other and all of the talking over one another that they do. I have no way of understanding what anyone is saying, so I have to move on.

At least Beck doesn't have all of that noise in his show, but the trouble there is that I do understand what he's saying and too many times it's just silly. Of the FOX evening "personalities" I'm probably most in line with O'Reilly. But revelations of his personal life kind of added a creepy undertone to the smirk/smile of his.

On the other hand, listening to MSNBC and CNN is just too far out and wierd for me. Madow, Matthews and Olbermann? What a bunch of out and out kooks! If I was a Lib I guess I'd say they were "stupid" ... but that's just the Lib way of saying, "I'm too lazy to consider any other viewpoints than my own." I have studied the Lib viewpoint, and it's just a bad approach to the problems we all face.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Socialite

...
My thoughts on Obama:

I appreciate the slow, cautious, calculated response. I also appreciate the desire to gain international community alignment given the situation (Muslim nation).

...

It appears the Obama administration has indeed been "slow" but apparently not "calculating" at all.

An Italian newspaper gives us a clearer picture of the "Rebel Leader" in Libya. It turns out that he personally recruited Libyans to fight against the U.S. in Afghanistan as far back as 2001, immediately following the attacks of 9/11.

"Mr al-Hasidi admitted he had earlier fought against "the foreign invasion" in Afghanistan, before being "captured in 2002 in Peshwar, in Pakistan". He was later handed over to the US, and then held in Libya before being released in 2008."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...eda-links.html

[BroGary]

The U.S. has long ago been hijacked by the "one world government" Luciferian (high-level) Freemasons to play their part of the Hegelian Dialectic of Thesis vs Antithesis to eventually get their desired Synthesis - the one world government which will then be ruled by the Antichrist.

The controlled mainstream media has the average citizen duped into thinking it is all in the interest of so-called "democracy", but it is just another deliberately manipulated "chess move" to further push the world towards a Luciferian one world government.

They use the "order out of chaos" method - they deliberately help instigate the chaos so they can offer THEIR solution to lead to "order", only it will be a Luciferian "New World Order".

Here is a very interesting article:

Is Libya Part of a Globalist Strategy?
March 4, 2011

In his 1997 book, "The Grand Chessboard," Zbigniew Brzezinski advocated a "global-zone of percolating violence," that included Central Asia, Turkey, southern Russia, and the western borders of China. It also included the entire Middle East, the Persian Gulf (Iran), Afghanistan and Pakistan.

As usual, the people are cannon fodder for the super rich.

by Christian Soderberg
(for henrymakow.com)

The Pakistan Observer recently reported that hundreds of US, British and French special forces have arrived to East Libya as "advisers" for the anti-Gaddaffi rebels, on the night of 23/2 near the eastern Libyan cities of Benghazi and Tobruk.

The Special Forces might be working with militias tied to National Front for the Salvation of Libya (NFSL). The CIA apparently supported this opposition group in the 1984 failed coup against Gaddaffi.

NFSL is led by Ibrahim Abdulaziz Sahad, who's at the movement living in exile in the US.

NFSL is also a group-member in the 'National Conference for the Libyan Opposition', one of the groups who organized the anti-Gaddaffi/government protest in Libya.

Another coalition group of Libyan rebels, The National Libyan Council, is calling for UN-backed air strikes on "foreign mercenaries", according to Reuters. Although just three days earlier the same spokesperson, Hafiz Ghoga, a human rights lawyer, told Reuters, "We are completely against foreign intervention. The rest of Libya will be liberated by the people."

It looks like it looks that the Globalists (international bankers and industrialists) controlling Washington, NATO and EU, are trying to steer this Libyan revolution in their direction, and the purpose is to get bigger share of Libyan oil and gas.

But the Western intervention will serve as a provocation to Islamic-radicals to prolong the Globalists' War on Terror and to create more distractions from the corruption back home.

ILLUMINATI BEHIND ANTI GOVERNMENT PROTESTS

These Middle Eastern pro-democracy protests are funded by Globalist-billionaires like George Soros, a Rothschild lieutenant.

Another important figure is Zbigniew Brzezinski, a member of Trilateral Commission , Bilderberg Group and Council on Foreign Relations, and a senior adviser to the 'International Crisis Group' a group with close connections to the World Bank and George Soros, a group that Mohamed ElBaradei left in Jan 2011, right before returning to Egypt to become the "face of the democratic revolution".

In his 1997 book 'The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives', Brzezinski emphasized the importance of American dominance of the oil/energy rich Central Asia or "Eurasian Balkans."

Zbigniew Brzezinski advocated a "global-zone of percolating violence," that included Central Asia, Turkey, southern Russia, and the western borders of China. It also included the entire Middle East, the Persian Gulf (Iran), Afghanistan and Pakistan.

"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (211)

This book was published four years before 9/11 got the American people and the world behind the Illuminati invasion of the Eurasian Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq.

ILLUMINATI STRATEGY?

Rather than NATO intervention, we may see prolonged turmoil in which the western governments will arm the local armies to clear the way for them. This can go on for years as we have seen in Iraq.

Iraq has been fairly close to a state of civil war since the "coalition-invasion" in 2003, while Brit and US covert operations have been caught staging some of the violence blamed on Sunni and Shia militias.

Radical Islamic groups are taking part in the Libyan uprising. "Islamic Emirate of Barqa" is said have seized arms and 70 military vehicles with the help of Libyan army officer(s).

Francois Fillon, the Prime Minister of France, declared a war against Al Qaida in July 2010 after the death of French aid worker, Michel Germaneau who was kidnapped in Niger in April 2010.

Of course, "Al Keda" is a creation on the CIA. You can't have a war without an enemy. These days people will not rise up "for their rights" unless they are properly sponsored.

The Globalists also used 'psychological warfare' to radicalize Afghans including school books, which were still re-printed during the Taliban era in the 1990's.

"In the twilight of the Cold War, the United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings, part of covert attempts to spur resistance to the Soviet occupation" writes the Washington Post

This recent article by David Rothscum details Western intelligence involvement in oil rich Libya. He links to a Guardian article about claims by a British MI5 officer, David Shayler, that MI6 funded a Libyan Islamist group with ties to Al Qaida in their failed assassination attempt on Gaddaffi in 1996.

Turmoil and insurgency in resource-rich countries helps the Illuminati to get the oil, gas, and other business ventures for a cheaper price, while driving out weaker competition.

After some "order out of chaos" has been achieved, the area of conflict needs to find to raise revenue to build the country up again. The Illuminati bankers are there to offer their "helping hand".

Just as Iraq has begun to stabilize, Libya is here to fill the vacuum. The Illuminati thrive on war. Pakistan is next.

http://www.henrymakow.com/is_libya_the_next_iraq.html

http://kenraggio.com/KRPN-DevilinNWO.htm

http://www.texemarrs.com/122010/they.htm

http://www.henrymakow.com/000447.html

http://www.henrymakow.com/the_banker_conspiracy.html

the history of "Mystery Babylon" - a total of 42 broadcasts.

These first links have MP3 files you can download and listen to.

(I included a couple of the links further below) where people have transcribed those broadcasts into written words for those who prefer to read rather than listen.

http://remnantradio.org/Archives/art...abylon/MB1.htm

http://remnantradio.org/Archives/art...abylon/MB2.htm

http://remnantradio.org/Archives/art...abylon/MB3.htm

http://remnantradio.org/Archives/art...abylon/MB4.htm

(a couple of the transcribed broadcasts, the others are available on the same site below)

http://deceivedworld.blogspot.com/20...n-part-15.html

http://deceivedworld.blogspot.com/20...n-part-13.html

Remember - the mainstream media news outlets are controlled by the globalists so they will "spin" the news to their favor realizing that the average citizen has been duped into believing whatever the network news says with a comparitive few willing to research for themselves to find out the real reasons behind world events.