Apostolic Minister/State Rep. voted for AZ bill

[Truthseeker]

"Illegal aliens in AZ can still apply for government benefits, student loans and all of that"

That's the part the blows my mind, illegals getting benefits. I think all about buying votes, IMO.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by pelathais

For when you get back...

How will this law conflict with his ability to be "Christlike" to ALL the members of his flock?

The law places no burden upon "pastors" nor upon anyone outside of law enforcement agencies within the state of Arizona. If you are not a sworn member of some local or state law enforcement agency - the law doesn't even place you within its scope.

I don't think the bill itself exerts any pressure at all. I think it would be political pressure, whether from political peers or the press. I was just thinking that from his perspective, he could be pressured politically into taking a more stringent stance in order to be "consistent." Only time will tell on that.

Likewise, while the bill itself seems fairly routine, I can see how some bright-eyed-bushy-tailed redneck racist cop could use it as an excuse to trample on people he's always wanted to smash. Make sense? I think that's what people are afraid of--not the bill itself. People are fearful of those who will use the new empowerment to exercise their hatred for illegal immigrants.

I know that I've heard malicious comments about illegal immigrants among political conservatives, even among Christian groups, and the viciousness can be pretty disturbing. So while I recognize that the bill itself is fair, and I think the pastor's vote was fair, I can see how the whole process could be problematic in the future.

Then again, any steps taken toward fixing the problem of illegal immigration is going to be problematic, to put it lightly. The Arizona debacle is a microcosm of what would happen if the federal government took direct action. Can you imagine if this was California passing a bill instead of AZ?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't think the bill itself places any pressures at all. I think it would be political pressure, whether from political peers or the press. I was just thinking that from his perspective, he could be pressured politically into taking a more stringent stance in order to be "consistent." Only time will tell on that.

Likewise, while the bill itself seems fairly routine, I can see how some bright-eyed-bushy-tailed redneck racist cop could use it as an excuse to trample on people he's always wanted to smash. Make sense? I think that's what people are afraid of--not the bill itself. People are fearful of those who will use the new empowerment to exercise their hatred for illegal immigrants.

Those kind of "cops" are criminals and usually get ferreted out by their own excesses. An example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUkiy...layer_embedded

I don't know if this (now) former police officer was a racist or a redneck - but he sure seemed to hate bicyclists. Unfortunately, there are plenty of idiots that get into law enforcement. Silencing or tying the hands of good cops won't change that sad fact.

America has an out of control illegal immigration problem that is putting stresses upon our communities and public services. We need to address that.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I know that I've heard malicious comments about illegal immigrants among political conservatives, even among Christian groups, and the viciousness can be pretty disturbing. So while I recognize that the bill itself is fair, and I think the pastor's vote was fair, I can see how the whole process could be problematic in the future.

Then again, any steps taken toward fixing the problem of illegal immigration is going to be problematic, to put it lightly. The Arizona debacle is a microcosm of what would happen if the federal government took direct action. Can you imagine if this was California passing a bill instead of AZ?

Actually, California did pass a similar - though more far reaching bill - Prop. 187. That was dropped when Gray Davis was elected governor.

The Federal government does take direct action - a lot of times. And there are other Arizona laws that are more onerous to illegals than this new one like the human smuggling felony charge that PO mentioned earlier.

There is just so much misinformation about this law. All this law really does is to undo Janet Napolitano's "sanctuary law" and other local ordinances that have conflicted with the Federal laws.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36865

This law introduces nothing new. It merely requires that all other laws and ordinances in AZ conform to the U.S. Federal Codes cited within the law itself.

[Praxeas]

He is a traitor to his own people. Latinos who have the nerve to vote what they feel is right, but goes against what most others say, should be taken out back and beaten. This is America after all and nobody should be allowed to have their own opinion or have freedom of conscious without expecting retribution

[Monkeyman]

Blah blah blah, all I hear out of you is..Christians should adhere to man's laws.... It's the ONLY way, you know...render unto Caesar...then you smuggle bibles into China which is illegal...whatever, sheeesh. It's racial profiling, boo Arizona! Except for Los Suns & Randy Wayne

[Monkeyman]

OPEN LETTER TO REV. REPRESENTATIVE STEVE B. MONTENEGRO
..
April 23, 2010
..
Rev. Steve B. Montenegro, Member
Arizona State Assembly
..
Dear Steve,
..
I write with great disappointment over your betrayal of people who counted on you to stand up for them and over your greater concern for a bright political future in Arizona. As you well know, the community of apostolic believers who made it possible for your parents and family to enjoy a full life in the United States has always included a significant number of brothers and sisters who, like your family, have also journeyed in search of a full life, often away from very desperate situations, obeying a “higher law” of survival. Unlike you, they did not have the privilege of official documents from a denomination (Apostolic Assembly) to ease that transition. All they had was a name written in the Lamb’s Book of Life and, often, a letter certifying to good Christian character from an apostolic pastor in Mexico or Central America. Yet, as faithful payers of tithes and offerings and untold hours and years of religious labor, they made possible the sustenance of your ministerial family after its arrival from El Salvador. Like Naomi of old (the Book of Ruth), they have been uprooted in the back-and-forth ebb and flow of labor migration waves. Like Ruth of old (Naomi’s widowed daughter-in-law), they have learned to follow Jehovah’s dictum to always welcome the stranger, the poor, the orphaned and the widow, a teaching reinforced by Jesus’ concern for the “least of these” in Matthew 25. In that solidarity Ruth and Naomi found fullness and messianic promise in and for both countries, Moab and Israel. Now, like the beleaguered and criminalized community in the Book of Esther, your brothers and sisters must seek refuge from the blistering heat of xenophobic and scaremongering laws, appealing to high heaven for help in a time of trouble. What pains me the most is that unlike the heroine Esther who risked life and prestige for the persecuted, you have elected to follow the works of Arizona’s own Haman, Senator Russell Pearce, who has long sought to mark and expel these “lawbreakers” (notice the similarity to Haman’s charges) and who has ascended into powerful positions on the back of these scapegoats. My dear Steve, many of these scapegoats are your brothers and sisters, who have prayed for and physically sustained you and yours all these years. Your betrayal and hypocrisy (surely you transported and fellowshipped with these “lawbreakers” in the past; surely you never refused a tithe or love offering from the hands of “lawbreaking” laborers) as a co-signer of this nefarious legislation (SB 1070) is a source of great sadness. So, too, was your 2008 campaign’s attempt to distance yourself from other, “lawbreaking” immigrants. While I wish you well in your promising political career, I pray that you find your place once more among the powerless and humble of the earth. Who knows, but that for such a time as this you have been called into the public square, to proclaim justice and mercy? You may protest that you sought to soften the heavy hand of Haman (Pearce), but you did not succeed. Neither will Governor Brewer's executive order against racial profiling. The hounds of fear and hatred have been unleashed. And do not think that you will escape the fate of your vulnerable brethren. Dear Steve, it would have been sweet to celebrate Purim (the Jewish holiday celebrating the Esther story of liberation) with you a month ago. It is too late now. The feast of Pentecost is around the corner, however. Maybe then you can restore yourself to the right hand of fellowship with your brothers and sisters who love and pray for you, albeit in the shadowy margins of an increasingly hostile society.
..
With a broken heart,
..
Tío Mordecai ..
(Daniel Ramírez, Ph.D., Ann Arbor, Michigan)

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Blah blah blah, all I hear out of you is..Christians should adhere to man's laws.... It's the ONLY way, you know...render unto Caesar...then you smuggle bibles into China which is illegal...whatever, sheeesh. It's racial profiling, boo Arizona! Except for Los Suns & Randy Wayne

Again, too strong of a response IMHO, MM.

The law changes nothing except doing away with Napolitano's state-wide "sanctuary law" and similar local ordinances.

If this law is wrong, why haven't you been crying out to overturn 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c)?

http://law.onecle.com/uscode/8/1373.html

The new AZ law merely calls upon local law enforcement to enforce existing Federal laws (such as 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c)). As far as "racial profiling" goes, this law doesn't even apply until after an officer has made a "legal contact." Local cops don't have the time, the resources, nor even the inclination to round up all 460,000 illegal immigrants that are estimated to live in Arizona.

If this law is wrong, then why have you not been advocating the elimination of all Federal immigration laws? Why the sudden indignation now?

[pelathais]

Let's do this: For every Hispanic American citizen who is hassled in Arizona because of "racial profiling" we will score one tally for NAY! against SB:1070.

For every person who is in this country illegally who commits a felony in the state of Arizona we will tally one YEA! in favor of SB:1070.

Anybody on the "NAY" side want to take me up on this?

The day after this law was passed an Arizona deputy sheriff was shot and seriously injured by a group of 6 individuals who were in the country illegally. There were no reports of racial profiling that day.

So just from Day One we have a tally of:

NAY! - 0
YEA! - 6

Should we keep the tally going?

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

OPEN LETTER TO REV. REPRESENTATIVE STEVE B. MONTENEGRO
..
April 23, 2010
..
Rev. Steve B. Montenegro, Member
Arizona State Assembly
..
Dear Steve,
..
I write with great disappointment over your betrayal of people who counted on you to stand up for them and over your greater concern for a bright political future in Arizona. As you well know, the community of apostolic believers who made it possible for your parents and family to enjoy a full life in the United States has always included a significant number of brothers and sisters who, like your family, have also journeyed in search of a full life, often away from very desperate situations, obeying a “higher law” of survival. Unlike you, they did not have the privilege of official documents from a denomination (Apostolic Assembly) to ease that transition. All they had was a name written in the Lamb’s Book of Life and, often, a letter certifying to good Christian character from an apostolic pastor in Mexico or Central America. Yet, as faithful payers of tithes and offerings and untold hours and years of religious labor, they made possible the sustenance of your ministerial family after its arrival from El Salvador. Like Naomi of old (the Book of Ruth), they have been uprooted in the back-and-forth ebb and flow of labor migration waves. Like Ruth of old (Naomi’s widowed daughter-in-law), they have learned to follow Jehovah’s dictum to always welcome the stranger, the poor, the orphaned and the widow, a teaching reinforced by Jesus’ concern for the “least of these” in Matthew 25. In that solidarity Ruth and Naomi found fullness and messianic promise in and for both countries, Moab and Israel. Now, like the beleaguered and criminalized community in the Book of Esther, your brothers and sisters must seek refuge from the blistering heat of xenophobic and scaremongering laws, appealing to high heaven for help in a time of trouble. What pains me the most is that unlike the heroine Esther who risked life and prestige for the persecuted, you have elected to follow the works of Arizona’s own Haman, Senator Russell Pearce, who has long sought to mark and expel these “lawbreakers” (notice the similarity to Haman’s charges) and who has ascended into powerful positions on the back of these scapegoats. My dear Steve, many of these scapegoats are your brothers and sisters, who have prayed for and physically sustained you and yours all these years. Your betrayal and hypocrisy (surely you transported and fellowshipped with these “lawbreakers” in the past; surely you never refused a tithe or love offering from the hands of “lawbreaking” laborers) as a co-signer of this nefarious legislation (SB 1070) is a source of great sadness. So, too, was your 2008 campaign’s attempt to distance yourself from other, “lawbreaking” immigrants. While I wish you well in your promising political career, I pray that you find your place once more among the powerless and humble of the earth. Who knows, but that for such a time as this you have been called into the public square, to proclaim justice and mercy? You may protest that you sought to soften the heavy hand of Haman (Pearce), but you did not succeed. Neither will Governor Brewer's executive order against racial profiling. The hounds of fear and hatred have been unleashed. And do not think that you will escape the fate of your vulnerable brethren. Dear Steve, it would have been sweet to celebrate Purim (the Jewish holiday celebrating the Esther story of liberation) with you a month ago. It is too late now. The feast of Pentecost is around the corner, however. Maybe then you can restore yourself to the right hand of fellowship with your brothers and sisters who love and pray for you, albeit in the shadowy margins of an increasingly hostile society.
..
With a broken heart,
..
Tío Mordecai ..
(Daniel Ramírez, Ph.D., Ann Arbor, Michigan)

Your brother hit it on the nose ... SM benefitted from an organization whose legal team got his family a free pass and a pastorate .... funded by many illegals themselves ....

Only to belly ache about "crime is crime". This ... if ever, was a time to abstain.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by DAII

Your brother hit it on the nose ... SM benefitted from an organization whose legal team got his family a free pass and a pastorate .... funded by many illegals themselves ....

Only to belly ache about "crime is crime".

Most of the "xenophobic and scaremongering" language has come from the Left who seek to create an atmosphere of oppression and fear with their overblown rhetoric and hyperbole.

Besides, you already lost this argument when you compared your polemic opponents to "nazis." Godwin's Law.