Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Your point here is the exact thing I referred to in an earlier post. His FOLLOWING is at RISK. His Kingdom.

This is how Religion grows into something dark.

Did Jesus not question those of Faith, who were deemed Great, and, in front of everyone? Will we allow our Faith to be overrun by Scribes and Pharisees who lash out at those who corner them?

The problem with this comparison is that I don't think that PM would be a good Pharisee at all.


I met him once in the late 90's when I was at IBC for a weekend.

It was a long time ago, but I think he would have been the most liberal preacher in the NC district when I attended the church in Jacksonville.

It was just the impression I got from his words and mannerisms, and those around him-- nothing more.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The problem with this comparison is that I don't think that PM would be a good Pharisee at all.


I met him once in the late 90's when I was at IBC for a weekend.

It was a long time ago, but I think he would have been the most liberal preacher in the NC district when I attended the church in Jacksonville.

It was just the impression I got from his words and mannerisms, and those around him-- nothing more.

The political landscape was different then, as well as the perceived "needs of the church."

And, guys like Notofworks weren't preaching with their shirts untucked yet.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Thank you for posting this.

It should be said that "some" on AFF feel the way you describe, but by no means all or most. I have not and do not belittle or ridicule those who are conservative. Our family is just that. Conservatives are welcome here.

Concerning "doctrine" AFF contends for the spirit of the merger, even if it is not so popular today.

I would add to your response to BHILL's post that the "cons" played the belittling game as ferciously - even more ferrociously than most.

One particular "con" was named by DAII a couple of pages back. That "con" left after accusing a neighboring UPC pastor of defiantly using a woman on his platform who was "shacking up with young men" and drinking alcohol.

The name calling, accusations and insinuations get real rough when the "cons" are playing.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

There are many active ministers on here who are not "conservative" in the context of the UPCI.

Also there are many lurkers who view this forum and don't get into the mix.

I'd still have to contend that PM didn't really appear to have AFF in mind when he said what he did.

I recently saw an exchange between a beloved family member of mine and a fellow "young hipster" on another "social networking" site. I felt real disappointment with the tone and the "fun" they were having at someone else's expense.

The thing is, I agree with the young men's positions on the issues. I see them both as being passionate for the things of God - perhaps a little too much zeal and not enough wisdom at times... but hey! I was "there" when I was a zealous young Urshanite.

Still, I can see some of the concerns that PM has. I just don't think AFF is generally an example of that and that his words were obviously directed elsewhere.

I also take issue with the tactic of using the words of guys like J. Franklin and other "outsiders" to tar our young preachers the way PM did. That unfairly put people like M. Masey and TFT in a bad position. There's enough to use to "get after" our young bucks without bringing in the rest of the denominal world. - - Pretty much like there was when guys like myself or even PM were young bucks ourselves.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

This forum gets high google rankings for nearly anything to do with Pentecostalism.

This site is #319,908 in the world with Alexia... which is amazing if you consider how much of a niche forum this place is.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/aposto...endsforum.com#

What are you? A moderator now?

[pelathais]

Sam the Man! Way to be, youngster. I'm sure glad you kids have the technical savvy to do all of this.

Originally Posted by Sam

OK, here it is, hope there are not too many typos in it.
I tried to scan it first but the results were unreadable.


From the Publisher
Paul D. Mooney

Migration

“If one doubts that there exists growing anti-holiness, anti-doctrine, and anti-Bible rhetoric, please listen more carefully. Social network pages are filled with self-loathing Pentecostal young people and self-anointed, self-defined cool preachers, who will mock those who attempt to call attention to blurring lines between righteousness and worldliness.”

“That, to the height of this great argument, I may assert Eternal Providence, and justify the ways of God to men” --John Milton

After being led to PM's Twitter page (a social networking site) I found him making several references to Milton's works in recent days.

My LOUDEST complaint here... if you can tweet, you can get someone to update the IBC Perspectives online site and keep it at least a month behind the current print edition. ***Rabble! Rabble! rhubarb! rhubarb!

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by BHILL

But it should bother the owners of this board that most of the really good UC posters like RRFord,Steve Epley,Doug White and others no longer post here. They had a high level of tolerance for other viewpoints, but just got tired of the ridicule.

Uh.......a high level of tolerance for other viewpoints????? Which forum have you been reading?

RRFord was about the best of the bunch, the others you mentioned, along with a few other members of their "posse" were HIGHLY intolerant of anyone who disagreed with them.

Respectful, most of the time, but highly intolerant for any opposing viewpoints.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BHILL

But it should bother the owners of this board that most of the really good UC posters like RRFord,Steve Epley,Doug White and others no longer post here. They had a high level of tolerance for other viewpoints, but just got tired of the ridicule.

RRFord fits that description, IMHO.

In my actual experience - SE liked to have a sort of "fun" that was often misunderstood. For example, see his thread on "Those Who Wear Short Sleeves Are Homos!"

Whatever his motivation, he certainly was happy to "throw rocks at a hornets' nest."

DW, I've already mentioned, and I'm probably the one who "broke the camel's back" with him. He was simply being unfair and unjust. The fact that he left the way he did seems to have indicated that he realized this himself but he just couldn't bring himself to admit to it.

I like DW. He's a great source of encouragement when he really allows himself to get going.

As far as the "owner's responsibility" in all of that however, DW was an owner. He was the "Mayor McCheese" of our little Happy Meal.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I receive the Perspective magazine and always read Bro Mooney’s articles.

I personally feel this about men who are privileged to have such a "Sounding Board".

First, his large following enables him to say things with great support. I know this may seem somewhat off base with certain people, but remove his following and his "Amen Corner" and he may find himself not being so forthcoming with his ideas. Let the bottom fall out of his "Country", seeing what he would say when no one is willing to back him up or support his philosophy.

Big Churches and the Pastor’s who pastor them, run the risk of putting God into their corner because of the Hype they’ve developed, or the Kingdom they’ve grown. They can claim that they have mentors or someone to challenge them if they falter, but ultimately they are King.

IMO, every King needs to lose his crown so they can understand every side of life and Faith. Judgment, ideas, understanding, and deep opinions all suffer under the intoxication of being followed by so many.

...

Excellent thoughts as always, NotForSale. I'm glad that you can endure the ignominy of the present company.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by DAII

"How sad when life long church members have to leave the churches they attended all their lives to find doctrinal holiness preaching . "

The solution he offers is coded in con speak is a "safe harbor".
What could be perceived as one man's sheep stealing is now a noble cause of protecting the vulnerable.


http://twitter.com/pauldmooney

He seems to follow the same error in thinking that I think BHILL committed when he said the "cons" on AFF were "tolerant" and left because of the "ridicule." Mike Phelps has already responded to that nicely.

And BHILL, I'm not trying to pick on you. You're obviously a brother and we almost certainly share a lot of common experiences.

PM bemoans the loss of those who in his eyes are trying to clarify some sort of "blur" between "righteousness and worldliness;" but what about those that were trying to clarify the "blur" between the spirit and letter of the 1945 merger and those who were attempting to "clean house" with the "bowel movement" (their words, I'll remind you) of 1992?

The nastiness really seems to have started with a mini-exodus of "ultra-cons" to California who went prospecting for saints in the expressed desire to prevent Clyde Haney & Co. from gaining too large a following back in the late 1940s and early 1950s. I'll not mention the "smutty" nickname (JW's words from the pulpit at General Conference in 1992) of the man who led that charge to California long ago.

It was really odd to see those who supposedly were leading the fight for "holiness" behaving in such a manner that they needed such a public rebuke.

The same sort of "aggressive/passive" behavior is often seen here. An "ultra-con" steps out and throws some rocks at folks, temperatures rise; and then suddenly the offending "ultra-con" is simply a "tolerant and misunderstood brother" and those whose hackles were raised are "loose living" and "weak on doctrine."

PM plays the same cards in this article. Where were you PM, in 1992? Were you happy with the tone? Were you eased by the "bowel movement" (Leonard Westberg's words)? Did you feel any loss over the departing brothers who were clearly in step with the original Fundamental Doctrine and the original Articles of Faith?

They gave their lives and their health to build a something for the Kingdom of God here. And you and your cohorts called them "excrement." Shame.