Banned from AMF, AGAIN!

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Jason

You feel more comfortable here on this forum....

Don't cry cause you got kicked off the other.

Settle in here, make a go of it, you can make a home here.

Jay, this is good advice. Remember it when you're the one banned.

You've experienced good fortune so far, but they will eventually eliminate you, as well. Especially when they find out how much you love AFF.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

They had "money" then...yes that is true but "money" then was not necessarily money like we have today. Gold coins they might have had but anything of value like jewelry or a gold bar was money...

Just taking your statement at face value without any argument... knowing that there were occupations and wages paid for services completely outside the confines of agricultural one would think that God would have included that in the tithing law. It certainly existed without any doubt. If God desired a tithe of ones wage then it seems he would have laid out as intricate a law on the wage as he did on the agricultural increase and yet from Genesis to Revelation... not one mention.

However they tithed on gain, be it grain to farm animals.

Indeed they did.

When a person was to bring his required offering if it was too much of a trial to carry it all that way he could being it's monetary value instead, under the law

Indeed. There was a 20% surcharge for doing so. But when they arrived they had to turn that dollar amount back into produce again so that they could consume the tithe themselves.

[Chateau d'If]

To all who would post on a "ministers only" forum:

Ask yourself:

1. Why is this a closed forum? What purpose is served by creating a club atmosphere?

2. Who owns this forum, and what were his/her purposes for creating it?

3. Is this truly a forum? Or is it a platform from which ownership espouses a narrow view which must not be challenged?

Definitions of forum (n)

1. place to express yourself: a medium in which the public may debate an issue or express opinions, e.g. a magazine or newspaper
2. meeting for discussion: a meeting to discuss matters of general interest
3. Internet discussion group: an Internet discussion group for participants with common interests

Encarta World English Dictionary

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sam

That may not be an appropriate statement.
I doubt if everyone on that forum has gay tendencies just because it seems to be talked about and bantered about it a lot.

Wanting to get in good "over there" Sam?

Read the thread. Ohio Pastor jokes like this all the time. It's no big deal, apparently. I've seen him set it up, dish it out and roll all over in it like it was gravy.

The only thing possibly "inappropriate" about this is that "The Boys" only want to be seen by others as being callous and cruel. I'm just trying to share the side of them where they lighten up and have "fun."

Just because I'm a little uncomfortable with this type of joking around doesn't mean others don't find it "liberating," or whatever. I'm not the judge.

[Praxeas]

IN the OT wages were negotiable and in the case of Jacob this was a wife and cattle


It would be odd to assume a man that is making gain by growing crops and raising cattle has to tithe but the man that is working for someone else and getting gain in money, crops or cattle does not have to tithe

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

Just as an FYI, using your first forum post to scream at people, probably isn't a great way to be taken seriously...

Uh... "first" and first time screaming... ?

Oh! With this username. LOL!

[Walks_in_islam]

I am not aware of a correlation between a tithe and a wage (in the Bible). Feel free to correct this perception.

The tithe was always defined in terms of consummables (in the few instances when it was defined). If the consummables could not be carried then they were to be turned into money, carried, then turned back into consummables by the same person (the one paying tithes).

The Mosaic Law:

You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. 23And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there,(M) you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil,(N) and the firstborn of your herd and flock,(O) that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because(P) the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, 25then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses 26and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And(Q) you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

Note: The next verse says don't neglect the levites (priests) with your tithes. This implies a portion of the original 10% yes but the specific portion is not defined? But the verse definitely says "you and your household will feast yes?". What say the ministers? Should the flock members take the tithe and use it as spelled out above to celebrate thanks for blessings with their own family?

Maybe this is it:

Every third year the tithe is to go to the priests and poor?

At the end of every three years you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in the same year and lay it up within your towns. 29And the Levite, because(U) he has no portion or inheritance with you, and the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, who are within your towns, shall come and eat and be filled, that(V) the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands that you do.

The new testament follows suit with deafening silence. Where does this demand for money and profit to the church originate? Babylon and the 10% tax? It would not stun me at all if today's tithe originated with ancient Babylon but there is a school of thought that believes it does. The bible has much to say about Babylon LOL and there probably, without too many stretches, can be comparisons made between the modern church and Babylon.

This gentleman is entitled to his closed debate. I say if there is a minister who has strong beliefs on tithing (and can pull it together and manage to not act like a hairsprayed schoolgirl pansy) bring him in, set up the room, and let him "stand for God" and man up to his teachings and beliefs.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Scriptural basis in the Old Testament or in the New?

Wages has to be defined too.

BTW tithing in the church historically started in the 4th century.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BlestAssurance

I observed the discussion between Brother Badejo and the other posters there.

All I can say is that his coming here and complaining about what happened there pretty much disqualifies him for the moral high ground.

Originally Posted by BlestAssurance

You are certainly reading a lot into what I posted, icluding a lot I did not say.

It would appear that you are speaking from a very biased perspective, which is not uncommon. We all have biases.

The "us against them" mentality that permeates this thread is making effective communication difficult.

Ohhhh! I get it.

[Walks_in_islam]

I see the requirement but not the surcharge........

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Indeed. There was a 20% surcharge for doing so. But when they arrived they had to turn that dollar amount back into produce again so that they could consume the tithe themselves.

[Praxeas]

It seems from the OT they tithed on what they gained, For example Abraham did not tithe on his own livestock and grain but what he gained in war