Mich--
Someday I hope you will find out that it's all about falling in love with Jesus, not about escaping hell. As you know, I'm one of your biggest fans because I love your honesty and your humor. So I will continue to love you and pray for you. The Bible says that if you seek, you will find. I know that right now you don't think you believe the Bible, but that doesn't make the Word any less powerful. I will believe it for both of us!
Mich-- Someday I hope you will find out that it's all about falling in love with Jesus, not about escaping hell. As you know, I'm one of your biggest fans because I love your honesty and your humor. So I will continue to love you and pray for you. The Bible says that if you seek, you will find. I know that right now you don't think you believe the Bible, but that doesn't make the Word any less powerful. I will believe it for both of us!
And what happens to people who don't fall in love with Jesus? Seems like the concepts are one and the same! (New kind of "Oneness"? )
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
To me, conviction is tied with not wanting to go to hell, that I find I cannot judge.
Was I ever convicted about cutting my hair? I didn't want to go to hell.
Was I ever convited about secular music, watching TV, wearing makeup...yadda yadda yadda? I didn't want to go to hell.
I did what I thought I had to do, to keep myself out of hell. I have read enough posts by other apostolics to know that apparently not everyone viewed things the same way.
I would have to say if this is the motivation for these things (fear of hell and torment), then it is indeed greatly flawed.
There are many things that I have been convicted of, by God, out of a desire to please Him, without any fear of punishment. I did/do them because I love Him...and believe He would, as a loving Father, never do me any harm, but forgive me in my ever-flawed ways.
Of course, some of the things you have mentioned I have NEVER been convicted of. Others I have, but for a season and a reason, abstained from.
Convictions are, to me, the things I do, or do not do, that I feel pleases the Lord. Its not about escaping hell, or pleasing church folks or any of that. Its all about pleasing the One who died in my stead. Who sacrificed His all, and Who in grace and mercy redeemed my soul. Period. If there was no heaven to gain, if there was no hell to shun.... I'd still want to do my best to please Him who loved me. Even before I ever knew Him, He loved me! While I was yet a sinner, He loved ME! Me! A nobody. A nothing. He loved me... and still does, even when I fail. Thats what convictions are to me.
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"Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him...." -Psa. 37:7
Waiting for the Lord is easy... Waiting patiently? Not so much.
Where is Brad when I need him? He is MUCH better at explaining the absurdity of God punishing people for their sinful nature (which they have no control over), and for not following his laws (which they had no knowledge of).
It's like executing a feral child raised by wolves for not knowing how to use silverware!
You flatter me... but I guess it worked. My apologies in advance for all of the people I will surely offend just by being honest about my thoughts and views... my very thoughts offend people, it's a powerful thing!
I would have to say if this is the motivation for these things (fear of hell and torment), then it is indeed greatly flawed.
There are many things that I have been convicted of, by God, out of a desire to please Him, without any fear of punishment. I did/do them because I love Him...and believe He would, as a loving Father, never do me any harm, but forgive me in my ever-flawed ways.
Of course, some of the things you have mentioned I have NEVER been convicted of. Others I have, but for a season and a reason, abstained from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneAccord
Convictions are, to me, the things I do, or do not do, that I feel pleases the Lord. Its not about escaping hell, or pleasing church folks or any of that. Its all about pleasing the One who died in my stead. Who sacrificed His all, and Who in grace and mercy redeemed my soul. Period. If there was no heaven to gain, if there was no hell to shun.... I'd still want to do my best to please Him who loved me. Even before I ever knew Him, He loved me! While I was yet a sinner, He loved ME! Me! A nobody. A nothing. He loved me... and still does, even when I fail. Thats what convictions are to me.
Then I can honestly say that the only real conviction that I have ever had was about using the name of Jesus as a swear word. Everything else I did simply because I didn't want to go to hell.
So when people look at me and say "Gasp! Look what happens when you venture onto the slippery slope" in reality, as soon as I lost my fear of going to hell, I saw no reason to continue to follow the previous rules.
At first I found that infinately scary. For about the first 6 months, I felt bad...not for doing things that I didn't used to do, but because I didn't feel bad about doing them, which is somewhat backwards logic
It reminds me of a few years ago when I kept saying that if smoking was wrong, then God was going to have to tell me, and I wasn't going to quit smoking until he did. (I had quit smoking when first saved because someone told me that you can't love Jesus and smoke).
I ultimately quit smoking....but it wasn't because God told me to. It was because my office building got struck by lighting when I was in the back having a cigarette and I was suddenly afraid that if I died smoking I would go to hell.
On the bright side, it did influence me to quit smoking. However, after that I got really conservative again. But it was all fear fear fear.
Mich--
Someday I hope you will find out that it's all about falling in love with Jesus, not about escaping hell. As you know, I'm one of your biggest fans because I love your honesty and your humor. So I will continue to love you and pray for you. The Bible says that if you seek, you will find. I know that right now you don't think you believe the Bible, but that doesn't make the Word any less powerful. I will believe it for both of us!
Sherri, I really appreciate your sincerity. I like that you are secure and confident in what you believe, and yet at the same time, don't feel threatened by others who believe differently. I think that can be a hard place for Christians to find.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
And what happens to people who don't fall in love with Jesus? Seems like the concepts are one and the same! (New kind of "Oneness"? )
Whereas I can't quite fault your conclusion, I am protective of Sherri, who is one of my biggest fans (and I don't have too many! LOL)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Murphy
You flatter me... but I guess it worked. My apologies in advance for all of the people I will surely offend just by being honest about my thoughts and views... my very thoughts offend people, it's a powerful thing!
LOL Brad, you are in good company! I have found that many who admired my transparency when I was closer to the company line, are not quite as appreciative of it these days.
I just wish I could find a way to really express that I don't have an agenda. I have no desire to make people leave their beliefs, and come over to my way of thinking. I'm not here to influence people, or to lead them on the slippery slope. I'm not threatened by ultra-con's (Though I don't understand them). I don't want to destroy the UPC, or make congregants everywhere rise up against their pastors. I don't care if women have uncut hair and wear skirts, or if they shave their heads and wear hot pants, or anything in between.
I'm just muddling my way through this big confusing thing called life, and stopping by for conversation.
LOL Brad, you are in good company! I have found that many who admired my transparency when I was closer to the company line, are not quite as appreciative of it these days.
I just wish I could find a way to really express that I don't have an agenda. I have no desire to make people leave their beliefs, and come over to my way of thinking. I'm not here to influence people, or to lead them on the slippery slope. I'm not threatened by ultra-con's (Though I don't understand them). I don't want to destroy the UPC, or make congregants everywhere rise up against their pastors. I don't care if women have uncut hair and wear skirts, or if they shave their heads and wear hot pants, or anything in between.
I'm just muddling my way through this big confusing thing called life, and stopping by for conversation.
I agree, I have begun to understand that some people need the structure and rigidity of religion and the hope that they feel it brings to their lives regarding the "next" life. Usually they are miserable here and hope that the next place is better. I have just recently begun to understand that about other people.
I will believe it for both of us!
)
My apologies in advance for all of the people I will surely offend just by being honest about my thoughts and views... my very thoughts offend people, it's a powerful thing! 
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