Drawing Lines: Where Do Yours Begin?

[mfblume]

Outward appearance lines?

I believe hair on women should be long, not uncut, though, because scripture makes no sense if it is speaking about uncut hair being long hair. Such an idea would allow men to wear hair down their backs as long as they trim it every so often. lol

Men shoudl appear as men -- masculine -- and women as women -- feminine.

I believe ANYTHING is good for a woman to wear as long as it is modest and feminine. This is not restricted to dresses and skirts.

Beards and moustaches are not spoken against in the bible, but actually encouraged... 2 Sam 10:4-5. Hence, I wear a beard. It's more "manly" anyway.

Clothing was NEVER said to be what tells the world we are Christians. Love for one another is to accomplish that.

But the points of emphasis I make in my life are regard for and seeking after FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT, spiritual maturity, and manifesting Christ through my life into the world.

Also, ya don't need a shirt with a tie to preach!

As far as putting things on the bible, I see no problem with that. Personally, and this is not to preach to anyone else but is MY conviction, I think it would be idolatrous for me to be worried over that -- again, that is for ME and no reflection on anyone else. The bible is not anything physically holy. The MESSAGE is holy and invaluable. I cannot treat paper and ink and leather as an object I must revere in and of itself. FOR ME, I would consider me having WEAK faith, according to 1 Cor 14. There, Paul spoke of things, such a physical meat offered to idols, as elements which concern weaker saints when it is only food. I take the physical bible as only paper and ink and leather. But that has no bearing on my feelings about the extreme value and holiness of the MESSAGE!

A person's spirit is foremost important.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Modesty is important,but displaying the right spirit is important as well.

[TalkLady]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

One of my lines is with lying. Can't tolerate that.

On the flip side, there are some people that are too spiritual for earthly good and I have a hard time being around them. You can discern it's not truly genuine. They seem fake and like they are hiding something in their lives by being super spiritual - know what I mean?

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN...What seems worse than a lying "saint" is a lying "preacher"...Isn't that what the bottomless pit is reserved for or is that for the false prophet?...I heard someone say the place of torment had to be bottomless because there are so many that they wouldn't fit into something with a boundary!

[Joseph Miller]

BUMP

It would be ashamed for this thread to die. Lets keep it going.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

... one Evangelist who did this openly behind the pulpit.

A comment or two meant as jokes from behind the pulpit don't bother me. I wasn't specifically referring to public speaking when I said "publicly degrades." I won't tolerate a man who degrades his wife to any third party in any setting.

Originally Posted by Steadfast

... He carried this 'demeaning' attitude towards his wife back into the table that night during some after Church fellowship... I looked at him strangely and then focused everything I had on having a conversation with his wife.

If he interrupted, I just kept listening to her.

It really gets under your skin, doesn't it, brother, to hear this kind of garbage when you're the type of guy who appreciates and respects his wife? I'm glad somebody can relate. What a guy like this really needs is to learn: a) to recognize his own faults, and b) to look past the faults of others with Jesus as his example.

Originally Posted by Steadfast

... Eventually I spoke in kind response to him before he left. The next night we closed out revival and before he left I told him why we didn't go on (he was, in fact, a good preacher); ANYBODY that will treat his literal wife with such disregard and disrespect will eventually try to treat the Bride of Christ with the same arrogant attitude. I told him that I focused on his wife and her heartbeat more than him the night before because, to be quite frank, I think God focuses on His Bride a lot more than He does any single Preacher. "You're only necessary because of His love for the Bride."

That is some good stuff! This type of insight is the reason you are a successful and sought-after spiritual leader.

My attempts to "help" men with this problem have never worked, but I've never been as direct. I suspect that such men view their peers that don't approach their wives with hob-nailed boots as weak. At least you were able to get this guy's attention by interrupting his schedule and cash flow. And I agree it would be an unfortunate trait in a leader or role model.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Well, folks, let's be honest here.

Everyone worth their salt should have convictions.

Gut convictions.
Deep rooted, heartfelt convictions.
Never fading, soul captivating convictions.

I don't mind telling you that, in my opinion, if you don't have some real convictions you probably don't have a real relationship with God. The difference in most of us is where we draw the line when it comes to fellowshipping around our convictions.

For instance, your convictions may be much more 'relaxed' than mine. Obviously, some of my convictions surely pertain to modesty of dress while other's don't put so much emphasis on spiritual disciplines pertaining to clothing.

If you are right with God you have, somewhere in your world, some serious beliefs upon which you build your spiritual disciplines. Again, the question is where do you draw the line and say, "I like you but that's a bit much for my spiritual comfort."

Among the spiritual disciplines in my life are things that would be insignificant to most but others would be critical to most as well:
EXAMPLE... I simply cannot bring myself to put anything on top of my Bible. It bothers me. It haunts me to think that I would disrespect the Word of God by chucking it into the back seat of my car and piling groceries on it! Hey, I won't even put a piece of paper on my Bible... strange to you? A conviction to me.

I wouldn't disfellowship anybody over it. I strongly teach my young ministers to respect it to the point that if I see something on their Bible they 'know' my displeasure.

HOWEVER... I simply could not, for any reason, put false doctrine in my pulpit to preach and don't think I could have any real fellowship with an Apostolic Church that thought the New Birth Doctrine so insignificant that putting a damnable doctrine in their pulpit was okay.

GET MY POINT?
Both of them are convictions to me;
Lines of fellowship, however, are drawn differently by various people.

Let's do something 'different' on AFF for a little while. Let's talk 'convictions' and where YOU draw the line of 'fellowship'. I'm NOT talking about 'hating' your brother or 'resenting' another Church or belief. I'm talking about a "I love you, Brother, but that is a very important issue to me that I can't 'overlook' in my pursuit of fellowship."

What conviction do you have that would be hard for you to fellowship 'around'? Where do you draw your lines.

Not looking for a 'standards' thread here... looking for a 'I'm close enough to God that my personal convictions can't be ignored on this issue.

Who is brave enough to admit to a conviction that strong?

I respect and honor those with convictions or preferences different than my own, but I would like to point out a couple of things.

We toss the word conviction around in our circles and it eventually loses it meaning or is misapplied. In many cases it’s either a preference, tradition or an expression of our feeble attempt to work out Faith.

The danger is using it or following it missing the original principle or application.

For example Jesus was rebuked for his disciples not washing their hands before eating (now after going to Asia a few times I know the reason), picking corn on the Sabbath (Sabbath rest was for man, not Man for the Sabbath).

Now I imagine the original intent of those that instituted those traditions was good, but they were passed down to following generations and became not just a preference or expression of Faith but actually a means of measuring one’s relationship with God.

I once heard a radio interview with a Hasidic Jew, the interviewer was asking about the various religious rules that they live under, he jokingly said to the Hasidic follower I bet you even have a rule for tying or putting on your shoes. Expecting to hear that there was no rule, the Hasidic Man said yes we have a rule or method to tie and put shoes on as well. Then he remarked that he couldn’t remember or know the reasons why, but was sure that there was a good principle behind it.

I think some things in Pentecost started right and were a outworking of genuine faith towards God and were needful and sincere outworking of that faith within the life of the believer, but lose their original intent or become simply traditions that are passed on to future generations and become a measuring stick of their walk with God.

So we must not seek to override genuine Bible based convictions with the traditions of the elders.

In my own life/ministry where the Bible speaks clearly about, I have that as a conviction, where the Bible is silent, I remain silent and without conviction. I might have an opinion but to use Steadfast’s wording I don’t draw a line or refuse fellowship with those that differ.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Joelel

I think I'll stick with the convictions the word or the Holy Ghost gives me.I think I'll keep the beams out of my eye so I can see to get the mote out of my brothers eye.

Math.7:1: Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3: And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4: Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5: Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Joelel, I have a question for you. Do people with beams in their eye know that they have beams in their eye?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Joelel, I have a question for you. Do people with beams in their eye know that they have beams in their eye?

If you have the Holy Ghost,yes.He will not let you be blind.If a person has a sin in their life they know it,that don't mean they repent and get it out.

[simplyme]

5: Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Could this be? Once having cast out ones OWN 'mote', one can then do that to another bro? What IF that one doesn't wanna let it go?
Can we bop em up side the head and yank it out for their own good?


Not meaning to ever make fun of GOD's WORD, but seriously I never looked at it this way.
I can't see how anyone can be "perfect" enough to demand someone else change
or else!

[Cindy]

My line is drawn when anyone is disrespectful about, or gossips about preachers and/or pastors. If they have a problem they don't have to tell anyone or everyone about it. Tell it to God, I don't wanna know. Some want to tell everyone and their dog about this or that preacher and how wrong they are. Pray about it, don't be spreading the spirit of gossip. It just makes me angry.