What Happened At Pentecost in Acts 2?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It is online for free!

http://www.ccel.org/n/nee/normal/

Thanks! That was easy!

It would be hard to resist teaching this, but I planted a new church and we do not have midweek meetings yet. Keep us in prayer.

Okay, I will pray, but sometimes I wish we didn't have mid-week service. I hate fixing my hair. I wish I belonged to a hippy church, where you didn't have to roll your hair or use hairspray and mousse. I'd wear a daisy dress and a pony tail.

Actually, and seriously, we are having tremendous services on Wednesday nights.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I think so. "Sinless perfection" is a doctrine that looks to Romans 6, but I'm not sure if it is not a bad title for a teaching.

Gal 5 plainly says that so long as we walk after the Spirit, we will not fulfill works of the flesh or sins. As soon as we cease walking after the Spirit, by losing the faith of Romans 6:13, we slip right back into committing sins again.

Yes, I totally agree with this.

I also think the IDEALIST doctrine started with people who never did get the Holy Ghost baptism, and therefore have no power to resist sin, anyway! So it became an excuse for lack of Spirit infilling.

Probably so.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

...
I do not believe Col 2:11-12 and Romans 8:11 are related to 1 Cor 15. Here is why. 1 Cor 15 is bodily resurrection. Romans 8:11-12 is not, because the context shows victory over sin and works of the flesh, which is a problem we will not have when we are physically resurrected.
...

That's the way I see it also.
Colossians 2 and Romans 6 speak of a spiritual resurrection which every child of God has already experienced and 1 Corinthians 15 speaks of a physical resurrection that is future.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Why does the Word say, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" (I John 2:1)

It comes across as expecting our human nature to fail.

Maybe John was a realist and knew that even though we are dead to sin and have indwelling power to resist sin, being human, we might sin.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The simple pattern in Romans 6 is this:

1) KNOW (Ro. 6:3-9)
2) RECKON (Ro. 6:10-12)
3) YIELD. (Ro. 6:13).


First we have to KNOW the facts. We died with Jesus and are as much dead to sin as He was when He died. We must also KNOW we resurrected with Jesus. So, first we have to learn those facts.

Then Romans 6:11 says RECKON. We must now truly apply all these facts to ourselves as individuals. "ME" -- "I" -- died with Jesus and am actually risen with Him with as much victory as He has, since I SHARE IN HIS VICTORY. That is what it means to be JOINT-HEIRS with Jesus!

And the third step is to YIELD. Now that we reckon/consider His experiences to be our own, personally, then we go to God IN THAT FRAME OF MIND. We present ourselves to Him as ALIVE FROM THE DEAD. 6:13. This means we UNDERSTAND we died and are freed from sin (v. 7) and are alive unto God THROUGH CHRIST (through the fact that we shared his death and resurrection ever since we got baptized into that death -- the baptism into His death is where this all started and where we came into union with Him). And presenting yourself to God with that mindset -- "I am here before you God, alive from the dead" -- you have provided God the faith in your life that HE NEEDS TO EMPOWER YOU. You EXPECT Him to empower you because you removed the expectation for you to sin.

When you expect to sin you will find a way to do it!

So Paul removes the expectation to sin by explaining to us and reasoning with us about how we are risen with Christ.

IOW, as much as we depend on Christ's experience of the death of the cross to KNOW we are saved, we apply that same faith in the cross towards VICTORY OVER SIN. As much as we are saved by the cross -- and we are CONVINCED and CONFIDENT of that -- we are likewise now informed in Romans 6 that we are dead to sin!

Thanks, Mike.
Good teaching.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sam

That's the way I see it also.
Colossians 2 and Romans 6 speak of a spiritual resurrection which every child of God has already experienced and 1 Corinthians 15 speaks of a physical resurrection that is future.

Amen and amen!

Originally Posted by Sam

aybe John was a realist and knew that even though we are dead to sin and have indwelling power to resist sin, being human, we might sin.

Exactly! Praise God!

[Sam]

[QUOTE=Pressing-On;995929]
... sometimes I wish we didn't have mid-week service. I hate fixing my hair. I wish I belonged to a hippy church, where you didn't have to roll your hair or use hairspray and mousse. I'd wear a daisy dress and a pony tail....

/QUOTE]

maybe you ought to relax the "dress code" for your services and go informal.

[Pressing-On]

[QUOTE=Sam;995987]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

... sometimes I wish we didn't have mid-week service. I hate fixing my hair. I wish I belonged to a hippy church, where you didn't have to roll your hair or use hairspray and mousse. I'd wear a daisy dress and a pony tail....

/QUOTE]

maybe you ought to relax the "dress code" for your services and go informal.

LOL! We dress to present ourselves to God. If I wanted to wear a daisy sundress and ponytail, I would do that at the beach.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Now, this is not free of controversy! lol

MANY MANY believe that Romans 6 proposes only an IDEAL. They say we cannot REALLY live above sin, but should try to get there, although we never will in this life. I deny that. I think it lacks revelation of what Paul was actually saying.

You know Bro Blume, the idea that we can live above sin perfectly is what a lot of Christians struggle with. For me, I personally have a testimony in this area and I must say Romans 6 to Romans 8 has helped me to live above sin (not trying to boast here, I'm just sharing a testimony).

For the longest time, I was using "will power" as Paul outlined in Romans 7 until I realized that Romans 8 actually says to depend on the Spirit, and it actually becomes a lot easier to live above sin. (The carnal desires just naturally die away as we commune with the Lord constantly).
My life is no more "I don't want to sin"
My life is now "I don't even have a desire to sin"

A lot of people use 1 John 1:8 and to justify habitual sin, but they forget to read on to 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (Why would the scriptures say "sin not" if it's only an IDEAL?)

Anyway. my point was Romans 6 to Romans 8 does indeed show us how to have dominion over the sinful nature.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sam

maybe you ought to relax the "dress code" for your services and go informal.

We are totally informal now. I found out that "dressing up" for church never started in the early church. The early church was simply informal. But after Constantine turned his temples over the Christians, one never knew when Constantine might show up in any given building he gave them, so they all dressed up in case their church was the one for that day! Really!

And collars for ministers came from a time when the fashion FOR ALL MEN was such a collar. And the ministers simply held onto it and retained it until they were the only ones wearing it, sort of like 1945 styles were everyone's style that came and went with certain groups holding onto them and making them a dress code.

But it's certainly not sin to dressing up.