If You Are A Disciple

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by diakonos

The church isn’t Israel?

So, God has… 2 brides? Or a new bride (the church) and an ex (Israel) getting alimony?
A concubine??

Please explain.

Here, 1 God explains the whole thing in this video

[1 God]

Originally Posted by diakonos

The church isn’t Israel?

So, God has… 2 brides? Or a new bride (the church) and an ex (Israel) getting alimony?
A concubine??

Please explain.

No, one bride but the latter part of the bride(national Israel) will be saved like the rest of us per Jer 31. Try not to exclude anyone.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Esaias

"No other way to see that."

But your conclusion as to what that means is not warranted. You have imported into the text certain meanings and interpretations that simply aren't there.

You ASSUME a priori that "Israel and the church are two separate entities" and THEN point to the text as "proof" of your assertion. That's called begging the question and is a fallacy, an ERROR.

The church is Israel -

Acts 7:38 KJV
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

New covenant Israel is the new covenant church and vice versa. Because you are a dispensational futurist, you cannot wrap your mind around that concept. And therefore you cannot understand the Bible.

For anyone else reading: Israel is the people of God, descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They were given a covenant at Sinai, they broke that covenant, so God made a new covenant WITH THE SAME PEOPLE - ISRAEL (see Hebrews 8:8 etc). Those "gentiles" who acknowledge Israel's King, Jesus the Christ, and enter that covenant, are "grafted into" the commonwealth of Israel:

Ephesians 2:12-16 KJV
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ; [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; [16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

And again:

1 Peter 2:9-10 KJV
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: [10] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

And again:

Romans 11:24 KJV
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Shall we exclude a certain people from the bride? You only see the casting off and not the renewal? Interesting Christian concept.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No, that's not all you are saying. You are quoting the scripture through your own personal interpretation. Same, as any atheist, Baptist, or Greek Orthodox, or the UFO cult, Nation of Islam. All take scripture and give those scriptures their own meaning...like you. Yet, Simeon totally understood that events were to happen in his lifetime. Hence the reason Simeon asks God that he would not die until he witnessed the Christ. Did he also understand his words to mean that a group of non Judean Europeans would adopt a 15th century A.D. religion call Talmudic Rabbinical Judaism? That the ancestors of the European Jews would want to down play the religious aspect of their ancestors, and create a new socialist group called Zionism? Ah, no.

The fall and rising wasn't talking about destruction and rebuilding of Modern day Israel. The babe Simeon held in his hands and spoke blessing over wasn't born to complete His work 2,000 and counting years in some far off future. The fall (or ruin) was that some would reject the Christ, Herod, some of the Judean religious elite, and some would be born again Nicodemus, Shaul Paulus Tarsus. As one alive from the dead John 3:1-5, Romans 6:13.


So, the whole thing that Simeon was saying that Jesus was born for the fall and rising of Modern day Israel, is false. Simeon was saying that Jesus was born to be a stumbling stone of offence. Some would be broken by Him, yet sadly, others would be crushed to powder by Him.

The Gospel is the main focus, given first to the Judeans, and later to the Greeks. Saying that a bunch of people living in Brooklyn, Miami, and Modern Israel, who have absolutely ZERO relations with the Biblical Israelis of the Bible. Saying they have some special carte blanche for salvation. Is teaching another Gospel.

But I better save my breath to cool my porridge.

I can post dozens of restoration verses for national Israel, not a one of them is about the church we belong to. This Bible of ours is cut and dry concerning restoration. Everyone here seems to think God cannot save the folks in Israel today. This seems extremely arrogant as a Christian. Simple questions, can God save anyone in Israel today?...Can God save everyone in Israel today? Yes or no?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1 God

Shall we exclude a certain people from the bride? You only see the casting off and not the renewal? Interesting Christian concept.

What in the world are you talking about?

I don't think you understand anything that's been posted. You aren't following the flow of conversation and are making silly statements that don't connect with anything.

Reminds me of a guy that used to post on here named Sean...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1 God

I can post dozens of restoration verses for national Israel, not a one of them is about the church we belong to. This Bible of ours is cut and dry concerning restoration. Everyone here seems to think God cannot save the folks in Israel today. This seems extremely arrogant as a Christian. Simple questions, can God save anyone in Israel today?...Can God save everyone in Israel today? Yes or no?

Now I know you are intellectually dishonest. Nobody said any such thing but you want to derail the conversation into a complete straw man, red herring, dead end rabbit trail. Obviously you don't want to face the fact your theories were debunked so you shift the goalposts, ignore what was said, and toss smoke grenades everywhere to cover up your numerous repeating errors.

So sad.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Now I know you are intellectually dishonest. Nobody said any such thing but you want to derail the conversation into a complete straw man, red herring, dead end rabbit trail. Obviously you don't want to face the fact your theories were debunked so you shift the goalposts, ignore what was said, and toss smoke grenades everywhere to cover up your numerous repeating errors.

So sad.

I am dishonest by teaching the church will fall and rise? I think not. I teach Israel will fall and rise per scripture, not the church. My observation of scripture is accurate. Yours makes no sense.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What in the world are you talking about?

I don't think you understand anything that's been posted. You aren't following the flow of conversation and are making silly statements that don't connect with anything.

Reminds me of a guy that used to post on here named Sean...

Can anyone or everyone in the land of Israel be saved today? Yes or no? If you say yes, you agree with Jer 31 etc., if you say no, you exclude folks.

[1 God]

So, the whole thing that Simeon was saying that Jesus was born for the fall and rising of Modern day Israel, is false. Simeon was saying that Jesus was born to be a stumbling stone of offence. Some would be broken by Him, yet sadly, others would be crushed to powder by Him.

Wrong, Simeon DID say the rising of many in Israel. Simeon said nothing about him crushing them to powder. That was what you thought he said....25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

[diakonos]

Why do you put “rising again” in bold but not “the fall”