Random Questions Thread

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

How cute. But you get no prizes for gaslighting.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

Gal. 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I think there are some(at least in my small circle) that would say that this promise of Abraham does not include the land promise.

Thoughts?

The land promise is part of the Abrahamic covenant. It is still a valid promise. But it has nothing to do with the people over there in the middle east laying claim to it.

Furthermore, the entire planet is part of Abraham's inheritance, which passed to Jacob, to Christ, and to His people, according to Paul:

Romans 4:13 KJV
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

How cute. But you get no prizes for gaslighting.

Brother? That wasn’t gaslighting!! More like Q-beaming.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The land promise is part of the Abrahamic covenant. It is still a valid promise. But it has nothing to do with the people over there in the middle east laying claim to it.

Furthermore, the entire planet is part of Abraham's inheritance, which passed to Jacob, to Christ, and to His people, according to Paul:

Romans 4:13 KJV
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

What does it have to do with?




Below are the passages that were used (primarily vs 24)when preaching the return to their “deeded” land of Israel, which began in 1948(aside from the claims of miraculous flourishing agriculture)

Ez. 36
24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.


What does it mean and when did it happen?

EB mentioned Ezra and Nehemiah…I reckon that will require yet more studying on my part

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

What does it have to do with?

Israel (the Bible Israel, not the one claiming the name these days).

Below are the passages that were used (primarily vs 24)when preaching the return to their “deeded” land of Israel, which began in 1948(aside from the claims of miraculous flourishing agriculture)

The British created the modern state of "Israel" to give the Zionist Jews a political entity of their own. I know that dispensationalists and many others believe the Jews getting a state in 1948 is "Bible prophecy fulfilled" but they are wrong. Israel would not be allowed to return to the land unless they repented of their sins and walked with God. The Jews are clearly not walking with God, but are in the land, and therefore are not the Israel described in the Bible. The modern Jewish state of "Israel" is just another in a long list of nations (gentiles) occupying the land as part of the fulfillment of God's promises to disperse ISRAEL out of the land due to their disobedience.

Ez. 36
24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.


What does it mean and when did it happen?

EB mentioned Ezra and Nehemiah…I reckon that will require yet more studying on my part

Sounds to me like a promise of the new covenant (new heart, new spirit, cause to walk in my laws" etc. Attached to that is the reiteration of the Abrahamic ownership of Palestine, it belongs to his descendants by decree of God - as long as they are obedient to the new covenant. His descendants have not by and large been fully obedient to the new covenant, therefore do not have possession of Palestine as a homeland. Instead, it continues to be possessed by others.

Now, for a while, it appeared to be returning to the rightful owners, but was never used as a homeland. And it was promptly given away to the folks currently there.

So as far as I understand things, it is still waiting for its rightful inheritors, who will not only be Israelites but Christians. There are a bunch of inter-related prophecies going on, and no I don't claim to have it all figured out lol. But there are several things happening, on several levels.

There is the original land promise, the national scope of gathering the elect, the remnant of Israel, the future of Jacob and Esau's relationships with each other and with God, and probably a bunch of other things that are all interacting with each other.

But the short answer is whoever is over there now is not true Israel, the actual descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because the requirements for that people's return to that land have not been fully met.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Israel (the Bible Israel, not the one claiming the name these days).






The British created the modern state of "Israel" to give the Zionist Jews a political entity of their own. I know that dispensationalists and many others believe the Jews getting a state in 1948 is "Bible prophecy fulfilled" but they are wrong. Israel would not be allowed to return to the land unless they repented of their sins and walked with God. The Jews are clearly not walking with God, but are in the land, and therefore are not the Israel described in the Bible. The modern Jewish state of "Israel" is just another in a long list of nations (gentiles) occupying the land as part of the fulfillment of God's promises to disperse ISRAEL out of the land due to their disobedience.

Could you give me a verse for this? I am not challenging you so please don’t take it that way, I’m just wondering what verse this comes from.(No land inheritance unless they repent)



Sounds to me like a promise of the new covenant (new heart, new spirit, cause to walk in my laws" etc. Attached to that is the reiteration of the Abrahamic ownership of Palestine, it belongs to his descendants by decree of God - as long as they are obedient to the new covenant. His descendants have not by and large been fully obedient to the new covenant, therefore do not have possession of Palestine as a homeland. Instead, it continues to be possessed by others.

Now, for a while, it appeared to be returning to the rightful owners, but was never used as a homeland. And it was promptly given away to the folks currently there.

So as far as I understand things, it is still waiting for its rightful inheritors, who will not only be Israelites but Christians. There are a bunch of inter-related prophecies going on, and no I don't claim to have it all figured out lol. But there are several things happening, on several levels.

There is the original land promise, the national scope of gathering the elect, the remnant of Israel, the future of Jacob and Esau's relationships with each other and with God, and probably a bunch of other things that are all interacting with each other.

But the short answer is whoever is over there now is not true Israel, the actual descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because the requirements for that people's return to that land have not been fully met.

See above

Thank you my friend, for all the help.




I can probably dig it out of this cite-
https://www.bible.ca/d-3-promises-to-abraham.htm

[Amanah]

The Blessing of Returning (repentance) to God
Deuteronomy 30
30 “Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God drives you, 2 and you return to the Lord your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 that the Lord your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you. 5 Then the Lord your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers. 6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

[shag]

I may have this wrong, but isn’t the land debate about it being a promise to Abraham, so no matter what his descendants do (repent or not) it was a promise to Abraham, so God would fulfill that promise to Abraham?

Straighten me out if that’s off.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by shag

I may have this wrong, but isn’t the land debate about it being a promise to Abraham, so no matter what his descendants do (repent or not) it was a promise to Abraham, so God would fulfill that promise to Abraham?

Straighten me out if that’s off.

We may need Esaias to help, but I'll try.

Abraham, the patriarch, received a promise from God (Genesis 12:7, 15:18-21) that the land he stood on would belong to him and his descendants.

The promises to Abraham are ultimately fulfilled in his seed, Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:16). Jesus is the ultimate heir of Abraham's promises.

As believers in Jesus Christ, and obeying Acts 2:38, we become part of His body, the Church (1 Corinthians 12:12-13). Through obedient faith in Christ, we are spiritually united with Him and become:
- Children of Abraham (Galatians 3:7, Romans 4:11-12)
- Heirs of the promises made to Abraham (Galatians 3:29, Hebrews 6:12-15)

As heirs, we inherit the promises made to Abraham, including:
- Salvation
- Blessing
- Spiritual land or inheritance (Hebrews 11:8-10, 1 Peter 1:3-4)
- The physical land, as we will reign with Christ on earth during the Millennial Reign (Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 5:5)

In the Millennial Reign, the meek shall inherit the earth, and we, as joint-heirs with Christ, will reign with Him, restoring and ruling over the earth (Romans 8:17, 2 Timothy 2:12).

In essence, as members of the body of Christ, we are the spiritual descendants of Abraham, and the promises made to him are fulfilled in us through our union with Jesus Christ, including the ultimate inheritance of the earth.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by shag

I may have this wrong, but isn’t the land debate about it being a promise to Abraham, so no matter what his descendants do (repent or not) it was a promise to Abraham, so God would fulfill that promise to Abraham?

Straighten me out if that’s off.

I’m not an authority on the subject necessarily but God did make a promise to Abraham.

He also made a promise to the Israelites. Basically they had to follow His law to remain in the promised land. Here is a passage that may be relevant to the discussion.

Leviticus 18
[25] And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
[26] Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
[27] (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
[28] That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
[29] For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
[30] Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

I hope this helps.