Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Are you saying then that the only apostles were the original twelve? Paul was not an apostle?

Listen, could you, do yourself and I a favor?

How about reading my posts and then considering what I say.

What did I call the twelve? Didn't I call them foundational? Wouldn't that indicate they were the ones personally picked by Jesus and who was with Him from the Jordan to the crucifixion? I'd be the first one to scripturally defend apostles continuing from Pentecost unto today. There were many more apostles than the twelve. Paul and others followed in their footsteps.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

And what of Phoebe? Paul refers to her as the 'servant' of the church in Chechreae. Paul's use of this term for ministers in the NT and its synonomous with 'deacon' a person with administrative and is usually also a teacher of the word. In addition, he sent her to Rome with the letter to the Romans. Paul was no dummy, as cultured and educated Roman man Paul knew that Roman tradition was that the bearer of a letter had the authority from the writer of the letter to explain and interprete the contents of the letter to the hearer. In this context if that's not preaching, I don't know what is. Knowing the Roman and Jewish patriarchal preference don't you think Paul's sending of Phoebe on such an arduous journey and for such and important task was with a purpose? He could just have easily sent a young, single man. But he chose Phoebe, undeniably a woman,to deliver his epistle to Rome and to teach its contents to the church in Rome.

Paul was no dummy concerning the Greek. Phebe was a succourer, which was a term used in the Roman Empire to mean "one who stand by in case of need." In other words she was a philanthropist. If we take this scripture to mean what you would have us believe then Phebe was Paul's pastor?
Most concordances betray the would-be scholar and never show that the word used for servant is not diakonos, which could mean church leader or pastor, but it is diakonia, which is feminine, and simple means to serve.

Rom 16:2

"That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also."

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

[Sister Alvear]

so are you saying we believe I Cor. 14:34, 35 exactly like it reads?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Pastor Epley, with all due respect, you're wrong. The name "Junia" in the historical record for that period ALWAYS refers to a woman. There is NO record of Junia being a male name. The odds of "Junia" being a male name are exponential so as to be virtually impossible. Rarely is something in biblical history as definitive as this. The Bible says she is an apostle, thus, by definition, she proclaimed the Gospel which is the definition of preaching.

SE didn't say she was not a woman lol...he said there is no indication she preached

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Paul was no dummy concerning the Greek. Phebe was a succourer, which was a term used in the Roman Empire to mean "one who stand by in case of need." In other words she was a philanthropist. If we take this scripture to mean what you would have us believe then Phebe was Paul's pastor?
Most concordances betray the would-be scholar and never show that the word used for servant is not diakonos, which could mean church leader or pastor, but it is diakonia, which is feminine, and simple means to serve.

Rom 16:2

"That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also."

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

you completely missed my point. she was 'a helper of many' which would seem to indicate her role in her local church. even if she was the pastor, and i never said she was and I'm not sure how you could even imply that I did, i certainly never said she was paul's pastor. you read way too much into what i say. even if she was the pastor though (i doubt she was) paul would have been her 'apostle', her mentor. even so, her role as the bearer of the book of romans to the church in rome is a completely different role and context.

i'd recommend the article in "Dictionary of Paul and His Letters" by IVP, pg 589 for more of what I've been talking about on this thread. Just one source of many on this.

i'll try to get back to you more on this later. i'm tired. long week and i have school all day tomorrow. maybe next week.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

SE didn't say she was not a woman lol...he said there is no indication she preached

i dunno, sounded like he said didn't think she was a woman. maybe i misunderstood. if so, my apologies.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

so are you saying we believe I Cor. 14:34, 35 exactly like it reads?

Of course not, Sis! We can liberally interpret any scripture when it refers to women!

They can't preach, but they CAN sing and testify. They also CAN teach Sunday School and cook church dinners! Oh, and we're really good at letting women clean the church!

Just don't let them take a text and stand behind the pulpit, and you're safe!

[Steve Epley]

I am convinced Junia was a woman and an Apostle probably wrote the Book of Hebrews and pastored the Church at Rome after Sis. Phoebe passed who pastored there for years. She was Paul's pastor while he was in prison. I just thought I would make this up since all this other FACTS about Junia has been made up.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

you completely missed my point.

Your point is what I adressed, and showed you that Phebe was never a pastor, or teacher of adult males. Period.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

she was 'a helper of many' which would seem to indicate her role in her local church.

So, what you are saying, is that you have no want to research this, nor are you willing to find out what prostatis means concerning the Greek and Roman culture? Didn't I reference you to the issue of what she was? Prostatis, means "one who stand by in case of need." Prostatis is the feminine form of the of proistemi. This means that Phebe was not a proistemi which would indicate that she was first in rank, one who rules over, and provides help.

Instead of looking through web sites that back your position, try and blow some dust of a few lexicons, dictionaries and find the truth.

At least make a grand effort to look this information up. Hey, I’m not your enemy, nor do I have some crusade to stop women, from preaching or teaching. I can't find women apostles, pastors, female leadership over adult married men in the Bible. Let's be reasonable, but let's consider the information. Shall we?

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

even if she was the pastor, and i never said she was and I'm not sure how you could even imply that I did, i certainly never said she was paul's pastor.

Please no offence, but if you happen to research your own doctrine, you may see that the problem stems from one Greek word.

The Greek word in Rom 16:1 is διακονία, diakonia, and not διάκονος which is the masculine. When you look at the actual text you will see διακονον which is an accusative, singular, feminine noun. Making it immposible for Phebe to hold a position as priest, pastor, apostle, or bishop.


Some concordance and American Churchanity doesn't really take into consideration that the everyday church goer has no idea about the Greek, nor Greek grammer. So, when the would-be student dives into the concordance he or she grabs whatever number is beside the English word and takes it as fact, and never questions. Why? Because they are only concerned about the word, and not how that word fits into the sentence.

Please look it up for yourself.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

you read way too much into what i say.

Please forgive me, but after hours of going back and forth with individuals who proclaim the "Female Preacher over Adult Married Men" doctrine, you tend to point out what they believe before they admit it.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

even if she was the pastor though (i doubt she was) paul would have been her 'apostle', her mentor.

If you looked at the verse in question and place your thoughts within the text it would be that she was over Paul. Let's look at the verse.

"for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also."

Was she an Elder to the Apostle Paul? Absolutely not, but if we use the words correctly we see that she helped finance, or succor things for others, including Paul.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

even so, her role as the bearer of the book of romans to the church in rome is a completely different role and context.

Indeed, it simply meant that Sister Phebe had business in Rome (due to her job as prostatis) and while she was there she was to deliver the scroll, and in return the church family was to help her out in any way she needed.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

i'd recommend the article in "Dictionary of Paul and His Letters" by IVP, pg 589 for more of what I've been talking about on this thread. Just one source of many on this.

i'll try to get back to you more on this later. i'm tired. long week and i have school all day tomorrow. maybe next week.

InterVarsity Press you sure? I will look into it, as you requested.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[ILG]

And the debate goes round and round. I am for women preachers, was a woman preacher for quite a number of years. I think that people who are opposed to women preachers do so because of a belief they believe is biblical. However, unfortunately, I do think it propgates subjugation of women, however honest hearted the belief may be.