born of water

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Sean

Especially those brains that do not agree with the ESSENTIALITY of water baptism to be saved.

Right!

Some folks understand one verse by itself, another verse, also by itself: then argue that they contradict each another.
Now this: if someone can not understand Jn. 3:3, they will neither be able to understand Jn. 4-8.

When the premise is wrong, the end result will also be wrong.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Sean

Acts 10 "destroys" Romans 6???


When they were not baptized, they were still dead in their trespasses and sins, that is why they were baptized that very day.

If you agree that baptism is a burial,Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death.....

then you believe that the souls in the N.T. that received the Spirit, prior to baptism were BURIED ALIVE!!!


Not cool bro...

How were they resurrected before dying?

[Truthseeker]

They had the spirit of life but dead in their trespasses and sins? Huh?

[shazeep]

ya, good luck with that

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

1 How were they resurrected before dying?

2 They had the spirit of life but dead in their trespasses and sins? Huh?

1 The Holy Spirit is surely the power of the resurrection; but remember, it is the promise to be resurrected. So we who have
received the promise (Holy Spirit) will also be resurrected to be with the Lord Jesus. As long as we are in this body, then we
know it is not the actual resurrection itself.

2 It is God's prerogative to not impute sin: and the Lord witnessed salvation for the Gentiles by this very act. If the
Gentiles had not been baptized, then we could assume that salvation would be without water baptism "...for the remission of sins...".
This did not occur, therefore we must assume that water baptism is required to "...enter into the kingdom of God."

[shazeep]

um...no. sorry. One need look no further than the parable of the Separation of Sheep and Goats to know that that cannot be true.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

um...no. sorry. One need look no further than the parable of the Separation of Sheep and Goats to know that that cannot be true.

Are you saying that both the faithful and unfaithful, believers and unbelievers will be judged regardless of whether or not
they repented, were baptized in water, or received the Holy Spirit? Are you touching upon the second death, or interweaving
the first and the second death?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

um...no. sorry. One need look no further than the parable of the Separation of Sheep and Goats to know that that cannot be true.

Are you saying that both the faithful and unfaithful, believers and unbelievers will be judged regardless of whether or not
they repented, were baptized in water, or received the Holy Spirit? Are you touching upon the second death, or
interweaving the first and the second death?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Right!

Some folks understand one verse by itself, another verse, also by itself: then argue that they contradict each another.
Now this: if someone can not understand Jn. 3:3, they will neither be able to understand Jn. 4-8.

When the premise is wrong, the end result will also be wrong.

Reading a bit into that verse eh?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Are you saying that both the faithful and unfaithful, believers and unbelievers will be judged regardless of whether or not
they repented, were baptized in water, or received the Holy Spirit? Are you touching upon the second death, or
interweaving the first and the second death?

hmm, i don't know about all those; but i do know that many will cry "Lord, Lord," and many others, "unbaptized," at least by the Christian standard of baptized, will be in the KOG. I am pretty sure we just have poor definitions for the terms nowadays, in the verses that seem to indicate otherwise.For instance, i often hear "born of water" being confused for "baptism," etc.