Beautiful, very pleasant words issued to those wishing to rightly divide the Word of Truth. Thanks for your thoughts, but you're misapplying that verse, too.
mis applying?
brother Im just looking for you to provide the context so we dont all misapply it!
how in the world could I misapply something that I am trying to find proper application for?????
more dogs. more vomit... i suppose
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I'm not criticizing ANYONE for trying to rightly divide the Word, and I'm not threatened by the discussion in any way. I'm just pointing out that using a colloquialism that may be ignorantly or inappropriately applied doesn't necessarily negate the core point or principle being presented.
We can discuss the terminology without maligning every person who uses the terminology as being ignorant at best and somehow malicious at the worst. Using a commonly understood phrase in teaching or preaching because the audience will understand the reference doesn't mean there's a vast conspiracy to mislead congregations into false doctrine.
Obviously I understand that God does the actual *saving* work; however, scripturally, the church has a huge responsibility to sinners, placed on our collective shoulders by Him. We have an obligation to reach out and try to convert those who are unbelievers. I have absolutely no problem with calling that "winning souls", "saving souls", "befriending sinners", "finding favor with people", "converting unbelievers", "fishing for men", or whatever else you want to use to describe that process.
Those of you who oppose the terminology, what would you suggest? Gospel sharing? Christian evangelism? What's the most biblical in your opinion?
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I guess this post of you is listing verses UNRELATED to each other then...
And my whole point is that the terms aren't the same. There's nothing Proverbs 11 has in common with Jesus' fishing analogies. Nothing.
So why is Proverbs even in this discussion? And what "term" -- capturing? catching? I'm not seeing the commonality, Prax. And where are you getting this exegesis of Proverbs 11 referring to "catching souls" or "catching men?" Do you disagree this has more to do with having friends? Like I said, Carnegie's "Winning Friends and Influencing People" is a better or more accurate "term" comparison to Proverbs 11.
Argument #1: Proverbs 11 should not even be used in the context of this discussion. It's irrelevant and has nothing to do with souls or so-called "soul winning."
Argument #2: "Soul winning" isn't a biblical expression. "That I may win some" by Paul, I've commented on already (prior to you bringing it up). I also admit a little unclarity by exactly Paul means.
Outside of that... what else are we talking about??? lol
I'm not criticizing ANYONE for trying to rightly divide the Word, and I'm not threatened by the discussion in any way. I'm just pointing out that using a colloquialism that may be ignorantly or inappropriately applied doesn't necessarily negate the core point or principle being presented.
We can discuss the terminology without maligning every person who uses the terminology as being ignorant at best and somehow malicious at the worst. Using a commonly understood phrase in teaching or preaching because the audience will understand the reference doesn't mean there's a vast conspiracy to mislead congregations into false doctrine.
Obviously I understand that God does the actual *saving* work; however, scripturally, the church has a huge responsibility to sinners, placed on our collective shoulders by Him. We have an obligation to reach out and try to convert those who are unbelievers. I have absolutely no problem with calling that "winning souls", "saving souls", "befriending sinners", "finding favor with people", "converting unbelievers", "fishing for men", or whatever else you want to use to describe that process.
Those of you who oppose the terminology, what would you suggest? Gospel sharing? Christian evangelism? What's the most biblical in your opinion?
MB, you just came off a little harsh. At least that's how it felt.
No one has "maligned" everyone that uses that term. Ignorant? Malicious? What conversation are you referring to? Conspiracy? Again, you are showing glimpses of why you were a tad defensive in your initial post. No one is saying these things.
As for other things you've said...
I cannot personally convert anyone. No one calls Jesus LORD except by the Spirit. I can share His Story with them, but the coming to Jesus part, believing, being converted is all His job. That means, it's on His shoulders. I just have to live my life in a Gospel way, which comes natural. We've made "soul winning" an event too often. He didn't put "soul winning" on our shoulders, he put "making disciples" on our shoulders.
If you have no problem with "soul winning" -- great. Good for you. I'm just saying... please leave Proverbs 11 out of it.
I mostly don't see a huge deal with using the term. However, the crouching theologies that accompany this phrases and campaigns can be harmful to believers. Anxiety and obligation of performance, comparing how many fish you caught on that trip, etc... it's the Spirit works. We plant and water... God gives increase. We live a Gospel life, sharing in life together, listen for critical conversations, opportune moments, etc...
I was relieved to learn that people coming to God was not something I could control. So what I'm declaring is GOOD NEWS to the Body, not "gnat straining."
Prax, reading your post again, I see you were looking at common terms and going by that. I get that.
This is dangerous IMO. I'll tell you why: It's what many preachers do. They see a word with meaning that is completely unrelated to the biblical meaning but use it because it gives them authority somehow. They aren't concerned with the meaning, they like the rythymn and sound. It's proof-texting. That's what proof-texting is.
Anyhow... just wanting a good conversation/discussion. I also thought it was interesting that Proverbs 11, a verse which I used much of my life to command others to go win souls, is actually nothing related to the topic.
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