Apostolic Minister/State Rep. voted for AZ bill

[DAII]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Since Missy B, has spoken in support of the "tea party agenda" in general in the past I guess we can pretty much agree that the "Tea Party" agenda itself is NOT "xenophobe" nor "moralist drivel?"

Yes, they're victims and true blue-blooded patriots.

Gotta love propaganda ... .Goebells did pictures, montages and movies well too

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Last word before I REALLY have to dash:

IMO, this illustrates the difficulty of Christians being involved in politics. Our first allegiance is to God's Word. When and if scripture and biblical principles part ways with politics, conservative or otherwise, logical or not, we have an obligation to act Christlike. The pastor has taken a political stance, which will probably conflict with his ability to show compassion at some point and time. I do understand his position, I don't disagree with his vote, but I do think he is unwise to participate.

Bottom line: I don't think Jesus--or Paul--would have reported someone for being on the wrong side of a border. Ergo, I don't feel the need to do that, no matter what our present laws might require of me. Would I report an illegal immigrant? No. Not for that reason alone. They'd have to do something to endanger me, my family or my community before I would see that as a viable option.

For when you get back...

How will this law conflict with his ability to be "Christlike" to ALL the members of his flock?

The law places no burden upon "pastors" nor upon anyone outside of law enforcement agencies within the state of Arizona. If you are not a sworn member of some local or state law enforcement agency - the law doesn't even place you within its scope.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by DAII

Yes, they're victims.

Gotta love propaganda ... .Goebells did pictures and movies well too

The woman on the right had her leg broken in 4 places and required surgery to fix it. The gentleman in the wheelchair was hospitalized and treated for a dislocated shoulder and a concussion.

To compare the victims of SEIU union violence to the Nazi Joseph Goebbels is beyond the pale.

Do you take pleasure in the suffering of others? This innocent woman was attacked, knocked to the ground and had her leg repeatedly stomped on by goons. And you support that?

Your comments here are very disappointing. You are in serious need of repentance and prayer. You really should be ashamed of yourself. I feel very badly for you right now.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The woman on the right had her leg broken in 4 places and required surgery to fix it. The gentleman in the wheelchair was hospitalized and treated for a dislocated shoulder and a concussion.

To compare the victims of SEIU union violence to the Nazi Joseph Goebbels is beyond the pale.

Do you take pleasure in the suffering of others? This innocent woman was attacked, knocked to the ground and had her leg repeatedly stomped on by goons. And you support that?

Your comments here are very disappointing. You are in serious need of repentance and prayer. You really should be ashamed of yourself. I feel very badly for you right now.

Taking pleasure? Are you being disingenous? .... sorry Captain America ....

Bad, badly or really badly?

I need repentance and prayer daily .... 'preciate the gentle reminder ... good looking out.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by DAII

Taking pleasure? Are you being disingenous? .... sorry Captain America ....

Bad, badly or really badly?

I need repentance and prayer daily .... 'preciate the gentle reminder ... good looking out.

My posting of "tea party" people who suffered real violence was in response to your calling these people "xenophobes." The pictures and the real human suffering behind those pics belie your characterization of these people.

In response you compare the pics and myself personally to a genocidal murderer like Joseph Goebbels. My family fought against Nazi tyranny 65 years ago. I have one uncle that gave his life (U.S. Army Captain Edward David Stack) and another uncle (U.S. Army Brig. General Robert Ignatius Stack) who captured Herman Goering himself and ended the fighting around the Nazi "National Redoubt" in Bavaria.

My great-grandfather (Josef Zitek) is enshrined at Yad Vashem as "Righteous Among the Gentiles."

You want to raise my hackles - call me a nazi. And yes, you do need to repent of your post.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by pelathais

My posting of "tea party" people who suffered real violence was in response to your calling these people "xenophobes." The pictures and the real human suffering behind those pics belie your characterization of these people.

In response you compare the pics and myself personally to a genocidal murderer like Joseph Goebbels. My family fought against Nazi tyranny 65 years ago. I have one uncle that gave his life (U.S. Army Captain Edward David Stack) and another uncle (U.S. Army Brig. General Robert Ignatius Stack) who captured Herman Goering himself and ended the fighting around the Nazi "National Redoubt" in Bavaria.

My great-grandfather (Josef Zitek) is enshrined at Yad Vashem as "Righteous Among the Gentiles."

You want to raise my hackles - call me a nazi. And yes, you do need to repent of your post.

I'd apologize if I did call you a Nazi or all ignorant tea baggers "xenophobes" .... but I didn't ... so I won't.

We owe your family and all who have served in our military during time of war .... including my grandfather and uncle .... a great debt of gratitude.

Forgive me, Jesus, for posting on AFF.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by DAII

I'd apologize if I did call you a Nazi or all ignorant tea baggers "xenophobes" .... but I didn't ... so I won't.

We owe your family and all who have served in our military during time of war .... including my grandfather and uncle .... a great debt of gratitude.

Forgive me, Jesus, for posting on AFF.

I'm not asking for an "apology." And what you did say was, "Gotta love propaganda ... .Goebells did pictures, montages and movies well too"

Thus, as I said, you "compared" me to a nazi. I found that odious.

In response, you now play the "Epley card?"

Are going to take your keyboard and go home because I'm a "nazi?"

[berkeley]

Reminds me of Prop. 187 in CA when I was in the 7th grade (1994).

wiki:
Proposition 187 included the following key elements[4]:

1.All law enforcement agents who suspect that a person who has been arrested is in violation of immigration laws must investigate the detainee's immigration status, and if they find evidence of illegality they must report it to the attorney general of California, and to the federal Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). They must also notify the detainee of his or her apparent status as an alien.
2.Local governments are prohibited from preventing or limiting the fulfillment of this requirement.
3.If government agents suspect anyone applying for benefits of being illegal immigrants, the agents must report their suspicions in writing to the appropriate enforcement authorities.
4.A person shall not receive any public social services until he or she has been verified as a United States citizen or as a lawfully admitted alien.
5.A person shall not receive any health care services from a publicly-funded health care facility until he or she meets the requirements above.
6.A public elementary or secondary school shall not admit or permit the attendance of any child until he or she meets the requirements above.
7.By 1996, each school district shall verify the legal status of each child enrolled within the district and the legal status of each parent or guardian of each child.
8.A child who is in violation of the requirements above shall not continue to attend the school 90 days from the date of notice to the attorney general and INS.
9.The attorney general must keep records on all such cases and make them available to any other government entity that wishes to inspect them.
10.The manufacture, distribution, sale, or use of false citizenship or residency documents is a state felony punishable by imprisonment or fine.

wiki;
The constitutionality of Proposition 187 was challenged by several lawsuits. On November 11, 1994, three days after the bill's passage, Federal Judge Matthew Byrne issued a temporary restraining order against institution of the measure, which was filed by Attorney General Dan Lungren.[20] After Judge Mariana Pfaelzer issued a permanent injunction of Proposition 187 in December 1994 - blocking all provisions except those dealing with higher education and false documents - multiple cases were consolidated and brought before the federal court. In November 1997, Pfaelzer found the law to be unconstitutional on the basis that it infringed the federal government's exclusive jurisdiction over matters relating to immigration, similar to the Supreme Court ruling in Plyler v. Doe.[21]Pfaelzer also explained that Proposition 187's effect on the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, the Congressional overhaul of the American welfare system, proved that the bill was a "scheme" to regulate immigration:

"California is powerless to enact its own legislative scheme to regulate immigration. It is likewise powerless to enact its own legislative scheme to regulate alien access to public benefits."

Governor Wilson appealed the ruling, which brought the case to the federal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. However, in 1999, newly elected Democratic Governor Gray Davis had the case brought before mediation,[22] and then dropped the appeals process before the courts in July 1999, effectively killing the law.[23]

[berkeley]

Maybe the AZ law will have the same fate as 187. I remember the mexican kids at school marched in protest, waving the Mexican Flag. Outrageous. They believed that the INS was going to tear their doors down and drag them out by force, and bus 'em to Tijuana.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Berkley

Maybe the AZ law will have the same fate as 187. I remember the mexican kids at school marched in protest, waving the Mexican Flag. Outrageous. They believed that the INS was going to tear their doors down and drag them out by force, and bus 'em to Tijuana.

CA's Prop. 187 died because a Dem. Governor took office and dropped the appeals process. Since Arizona is also in the infamous Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, it may fare similarly unless someone can get it to the US Supreme Court.

I imagine that the AZ law was written with Prop. 187 in mind and doesn't carry all of the multi-bullet point baggage of the former. The language of AZ's SB:1070 makes constant appeal to the enforcement of Federal codes and places no burden upon local or statewide "benefits" plans.

Illegal aliens in AZ can still apply for government benefits, student loans and all of that. This new law doesn't even address that stuff. The CA Prop. was inspired in part by the "costs" that illegal aliens represented to state services, if I remember it correctly.