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  #71  
Old 09-04-2009, 10:59 PM
jayb jayb is offline
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Re: Biblical Contradiction?

My neighbor is an atheist ,he says the bible contradicts itself.
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  #72  
Old 09-05-2009, 06:18 AM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Biblical Contradiction?

What or who your neighbor claims to be does not change the list. LOL As stated before, the lot of you will have much to say, some if not most of it insulting, but none of it addresses the contradictions themselves.

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Originally Posted by jayb View Post
My neighbor is an atheist ,he says the bible contradicts itself.
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  #73  
Old 09-05-2009, 07:12 AM
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noeticknight noeticknight is offline
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Re: Biblical Contradiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
What or who your neighbor claims to be does not change the list. LOL As stated before, the lot of you will have much to say, some if not most of it insulting, but none of it addresses the contradictions themselves.
You are making me work my friend. It would have helped if you would have listed verse vs. verse, but thank you for your contribution.

And no, I will not be among those that insult you. If these are legitimate finds, I want to know about them. If Genesis says "Adam and Eve," and Matthew says, "Rico and Maria," I want to know about it
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  #74  
Old 09-05-2009, 08:27 AM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Biblical Contradiction?

David was incited to count the fighting men of Isreal. In 2nd Samuel, God incited him. In I Chronicles, Satan incited him. When they were counted, 2nd Samual says 800,000 and I Chronicles says 1.1 MM. 2 Samuel 24/I Chronicles 21

God threatens David with 7 years of famine in 2nd Samuel, 3 years of famine in I Chronicles. Same chapters

Ahaziah was 22 when he began his rule in 2nd Kings 8. He was 42 in 2nd Chronicles 22.

Jehoiachin was 18 when he began his rule in 2nd Kings 24, 8 when he began his rule in 2nd Chronicles 36

David's "chief of mighty men" killed 800 men at one time in 2nd Samuel 23 and 300 men at one time in I Chronicles 11

David carried the Ark into Jerusalem AFTER defeating the Philistines in 2nd Samuel 5/6. Before defeating them in Chronicles 13/14

David captured 1700 horsemen after defeating the King of Zobah in 2nd Samuel 8, 7000 in I Chronicles 18.

Solomon had 40,000 stalls for horses in I Kings 4. 4000 stalls in 2nd Chronicles 9.
During King Asa's reign Baasha King of Isreal died in the 26th year in I Kings 15/16. He was still alive in the 36th year in I chronicles 16.

Solomon appointed 3600 overseers to build the temple in 2nd chronicles 2. 3300 in I Kings 5.

Solomon built a facility containing 2000 baths in I kings 7. It had 3000 in 2nd chronicles 4.

Isrealites freed from Babylonian captivity (Ezra 2, Nehemiah 7):
Children of Pahrath-Moab:
2812 Ezra. 2818 Nehemiah
Children of Azgad:
1222 Ezra. 2333 Nehemiah
And so on. The total numbers agree in each book as 42,360, but if you add each individual column from each book Ezra adds to 29,818 and Nehemiah adds to 31,089

There were 200 singers in the assembly in Ezra and 245 in the assembly in Nehemiah.

King Abijah's mother's name was Michaiah, daughter of Uriel in 13th chapter of 2nd chronicles and Maachah daughter of Absalom in 11th chapter.
Absalom however had only one daughter mentioned whose name was Tamar in 2nd Samuel 14

Joshua and the Isrealites captured Jerusalem in Joshua 10 and did not capture it in Joshua 15.

Father of Joseph, husband of Mary was Jacob in Matthew 1 and Heli in Luke 3

Jesus descended from Solomon in Matthew 1 and from Nathan in Luke 3

The father of Shealtiel was Jechoniah in Matthew 1 and Neri in Luke 3

Abiud son of Zerubbabel was the ancestor of Jesus in Matthew 1 and Rhesa son of Zerubbabel in Luke 3. 7 sons are mentioned as sons of Zerubbabel. Neither son mentioned in Matthew/Luke are mentioned as sons of Zerubbabel in the list in I Chronicles 3.

Father of Uzziah was Joram in Matthew 1 and Amaziah in 2nd Chronicles 26

Father of Jechoniah was Josiah in Matthew 1 and Jeholakim in I Chronicles 3

The angel stated that Jesus would inherit the throne of David in Luke 1. But Matthew 1 says he is a descendent of Jehoiakim and I Chronicles 3 says "and Jehoiaikim was cursed by god so that none of his descendents can sit upon David's throne" Oops.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a colt in Mark 11 and Luke 19 and a colt/donkey in Matthew 21

Simon Peter found out that Jesus was Christ from a heavenly revelation in Matthew 16, but his brother Andrew told him in John 1

Jesus met Simon and Andrew by the Sea of Galilee in Matthew 4 and on the banks of the river Jordan in John 1. John says Jesus went to the sea of Galilee AFTER meeting Simon and Andrew.

Jairus' daughter was dead when he met Jesus in Matthew 9 but not dead / at the point of death in Mark 5

The disciples were allowed to keep a staff on their journeys in Mark 6. They were not allowed in Matthew 10 and Luke 9

Herod thought that Jesus was John the Baptist in Matthew 14 and Mark 6. He did not in Luke 9.

John the Baptist recognized Jesus in Matthew 3. He did not recognize him in John 1.

Jesus cleansed the temple the day he entered Jerusalem in Matthew 21. He spent the night in Bethany and cleansed it the next day in Mark 11.

Same chapters - Fig tree withers immediately Matthew 21, but overnight in Mark 11.

Judas kissed Jesus in Matthew 26. He did not in John 18 because he could not get close enough.

The curtain in the temple was rent after Jesus died in Matthew 27 and Mark 15. Before Jesus died in Luke 23 because he spoke after the curtain was torn.

Both thieves mocked Jesus in Mark 15. One mocked, one defended Jesus in Luke 23

Jesus ascended to paradise on the day of crucifixion in Luke 23 (or so he told the thief). He said to Mary he has not yet ascended (two days later) in John 20

The apostle Paul and companions on the road to Damascus:
All heard the voice in Acts 9. Not all heard the voice in Acts 22
The companions fell to the ground in Acts 26. They did not in Acts 9
The voice spelled out Paul's duties in Acts 26. The voice told him to go to Damascus in Acts 9.

How many more? After Jesus' baptism Mark says he was driven into the wilderness, John says he selected disciples then went to a wedding feast. Two different versions of the traitor Judas' death. The time of the crucifixion has multiple versions. The story of the slave at Capernaum has (2) versions. The resurrection has (4) distinctly separate versions. Each gospel has a different set of people visiting, in some versions the stone is already rolled back, in one an angel descended and rolled it back, some versions have heavenly messengers, but the book of John has none. OH, the best one - in Exodus 7 Moses and Aaron converted all of the water into blood. Then the magicians did the same. Which is puzzling, because there was no water? LOL Anyway, there are the chapters, happy hunting.
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  #75  
Old 09-05-2009, 03:35 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Biblical Contradiction?

Great post on obvious questions. To not ask, or to challenge, means we all die in ignorance.

Again, God is bigger than the Bible (which man DID write). This helps to keep God in perspective and the Bible in perspective.

The Athiest post by Jayb, does nothing but leave us all with no answers. Hmmm? This reminds me of past and present Cults who demand the people never question the method of thier maddness.

Painting God with the wrong brush has been done since the beginning of time by this very method.

Ask on!! I need and want real Truth!! Thank God for those who refuse to follow the blind faith of religion!
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  #76  
Old 09-05-2009, 09:21 PM
SeekingOne SeekingOne is offline
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Re: Biblical Contradiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
David was incited to count the fighting men of Isreal. In 2nd Samuel, God incited him. In I Chronicles, Satan incited him. When they were counted, 2nd Samual says 800,000 and I Chronicles says 1.1 MM. 2 Samuel 24/I Chronicles 21

God threatens David with 7 years of famine in 2nd Samuel, 3 years of famine in I Chronicles. Same chapters

Ahaziah was 22 when he began his rule in 2nd Kings 8. He was 42 in 2nd Chronicles 22.

Jehoiachin was 18 when he began his rule in 2nd Kings 24, 8 when he began his rule in 2nd Chronicles 36

David's "chief of mighty men" killed 800 men at one time in 2nd Samuel 23 and 300 men at one time in I Chronicles 11

David carried the Ark into Jerusalem AFTER defeating the Philistines in 2nd Samuel 5/6. Before defeating them in Chronicles 13/14

David captured 1700 horsemen after defeating the King of Zobah in 2nd Samuel 8, 7000 in I Chronicles 18.

Solomon had 40,000 stalls for horses in I Kings 4. 4000 stalls in 2nd Chronicles 9.
During King Asa's reign Baasha King of Isreal died in the 26th year in I Kings 15/16. He was still alive in the 36th year in I chronicles 16.

Solomon appointed 3600 overseers to build the temple in 2nd chronicles 2. 3300 in I Kings 5.

Solomon built a facility containing 2000 baths in I kings 7. It had 3000 in 2nd chronicles 4.

Isrealites freed from Babylonian captivity (Ezra 2, Nehemiah 7):
Children of Pahrath-Moab:
2812 Ezra. 2818 Nehemiah
Children of Azgad:
1222 Ezra. 2333 Nehemiah
And so on. The total numbers agree in each book as 42,360, but if you add each individual column from each book Ezra adds to 29,818 and Nehemiah adds to 31,089

There were 200 singers in the assembly in Ezra and 245 in the assembly in Nehemiah.

King Abijah's mother's name was Michaiah, daughter of Uriel in 13th chapter of 2nd chronicles and Maachah daughter of Absalom in 11th chapter.
Absalom however had only one daughter mentioned whose name was Tamar in 2nd Samuel 14

Joshua and the Isrealites captured Jerusalem in Joshua 10 and did not capture it in Joshua 15.

Father of Joseph, husband of Mary was Jacob in Matthew 1 and Heli in Luke 3

Jesus descended from Solomon in Matthew 1 and from Nathan in Luke 3

The father of Shealtiel was Jechoniah in Matthew 1 and Neri in Luke 3

Abiud son of Zerubbabel was the ancestor of Jesus in Matthew 1 and Rhesa son of Zerubbabel in Luke 3. 7 sons are mentioned as sons of Zerubbabel. Neither son mentioned in Matthew/Luke are mentioned as sons of Zerubbabel in the list in I Chronicles 3.

Father of Uzziah was Joram in Matthew 1 and Amaziah in 2nd Chronicles 26

Father of Jechoniah was Josiah in Matthew 1 and Jeholakim in I Chronicles 3

The angel stated that Jesus would inherit the throne of David in Luke 1. But Matthew 1 says he is a descendent of Jehoiakim and I Chronicles 3 says "and Jehoiaikim was cursed by god so that none of his descendents can sit upon David's throne" Oops.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a colt in Mark 11 and Luke 19 and a colt/donkey in Matthew 21

Simon Peter found out that Jesus was Christ from a heavenly revelation in Matthew 16, but his brother Andrew told him in John 1

Jesus met Simon and Andrew by the Sea of Galilee in Matthew 4 and on the banks of the river Jordan in John 1. John says Jesus went to the sea of Galilee AFTER meeting Simon and Andrew.

Jairus' daughter was dead when he met Jesus in Matthew 9 but not dead / at the point of death in Mark 5

The disciples were allowed to keep a staff on their journeys in Mark 6. They were not allowed in Matthew 10 and Luke 9

Herod thought that Jesus was John the Baptist in Matthew 14 and Mark 6. He did not in Luke 9.

John the Baptist recognized Jesus in Matthew 3. He did not recognize him in John 1.

Jesus cleansed the temple the day he entered Jerusalem in Matthew 21. He spent the night in Bethany and cleansed it the next day in Mark 11.

Same chapters - Fig tree withers immediately Matthew 21, but overnight in Mark 11.

Judas kissed Jesus in Matthew 26. He did not in John 18 because he could not get close enough.

The curtain in the temple was rent after Jesus died in Matthew 27 and Mark 15. Before Jesus died in Luke 23 because he spoke after the curtain was torn.

Both thieves mocked Jesus in Mark 15. One mocked, one defended Jesus in Luke 23

Jesus ascended to paradise on the day of crucifixion in Luke 23 (or so he told the thief). He said to Mary he has not yet ascended (two days later) in John 20

The apostle Paul and companions on the road to Damascus:
All heard the voice in Acts 9. Not all heard the voice in Acts 22
The companions fell to the ground in Acts 26. They did not in Acts 9
The voice spelled out Paul's duties in Acts 26. The voice told him to go to Damascus in Acts 9.

How many more? After Jesus' baptism Mark says he was driven into the wilderness, John says he selected disciples then went to a wedding feast. Two different versions of the traitor Judas' death. The time of the crucifixion has multiple versions. The story of the slave at Capernaum has (2) versions. The resurrection has (4) distinctly separate versions. Each gospel has a different set of people visiting, in some versions the stone is already rolled back, in one an angel descended and rolled it back, some versions have heavenly messengers, but the book of John has none. OH, the best one - in Exodus 7 Moses and Aaron converted all of the water into blood. Then the magicians did the same. Which is puzzling, because there was no water? LOL Anyway, there are the chapters, happy hunting.
Did you do all this work or is this something found in a book somewhere? Just curious, it seems that with all the Bible colleges and seminaries someone would have addressed all of this. Thanks for stretching our minds, it does not remove the faith I have in Jesus.

I wonder, have you read the books on all the things that don't add up in the Koran?


Last edited by SeekingOne; 09-05-2009 at 09:30 PM.
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  #77  
Old 09-05-2009, 11:33 PM
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Re: Biblical Contradiction?

I had to laugh after seeing the front page listing of this thread with the latest post by SeekingOne. It read as though it were saying... Biblical contradiction? -- seeking one.

lol

Could not resist that one. No reflection on SeekingOne, though.
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  #78  
Old 09-06-2009, 07:46 AM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Biblical Contradiction?

Some I discovered recently. The Quran teaches prayer to Allah, the ELOHIM of Abraham, and teaches that Jesus never said that he (Jesus) ever be prayed to. The Quran teaches that we are to pray as Jesus did to the One God that Jesus referred to as "Father". So I pointed that out to someone on here and pointed out that Jesus never taught that he (Jesus) be worshipped and by example he taught that you pray to God (who he called Eli). Then someone gave example that "Jarius worshipped Jesus" then the chapter and verse. So I looked it up, and there were multiple references so I looked them up too. Only the version quoted to me (Matthew 9) used the term "worship". Mark 5 and Luke 8 do not. (Matthew 9 happens to also be the ONLY version of this story where the young daughter of Jarius was ALREADY dead, the others say "very sick or at the point of death). It is ONLY the king james version of Matthew 9 that uses the term "worshiped Jesus". The newer versions do not. So, this discrepency between the Quran and teachings of Jesus, who we by the way are taught to follow, was found only in one version of one gospel. All other gospels matched the teachings of the Quran. This happens to me over and over and they are always from passages that are given to me of teachings that are directly contradictory to the teachings of the Quran.

NOW: This discussion was not about the Quran. It was about the Bible. Your faith is your own and not for me to shake or try to shake. The purpose is to advise that your sources be checked and cross checked before making a point from them. I recall sermons that were created from some of these completely, obviously contradictory sources.

Some examples since you brought it up - discrepencies in the Quran for your entertainment:

Among them are in Surah 7 the people did not repent of worshipping the golden calf until after Moses returned. They repented before moses returned in Surah 20.

Surah 2, 6, 10, 18 all say that the "scripture of the Lord, Allah" is perfect. Surah 2 and 16 then go to say "we bring in place better revelations in place of other revelations".

Surah 19 says (one) angel spoke to Mary about the upcoming birth of Jesus. Surah 3 says more than one.

Surah 22 and 32 state that a day is equivalent to 1,000 years. Surah 70 says "a span of 50,000 years".

(2) versions of creation - one in Surah 79 and one in Surah 2/41.

My favorite and one I like to wave at the Saudis I get much entertainment from it: You can have multiple wives ONLY if you can treat them perfectly equally in Surah 4. Surah 4 then further says it is impossible to equally treat more than one wife however much you want to do so. Then says if you cannot treat them equally you are limited to one.

And so on.........typing these up tires me but there are a few more.

There is no shame in pointing out discrepencies. As my friend Aquila says on this site these things were written by men, some of them by memory, and as such they have to be imperfect.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingOne View Post
Did you do all this work or is this something found in a book somewhere? Just curious, it seems that with all the Bible colleges and seminaries someone would have addressed all of this. Thanks for stretching our minds, it does not remove the faith I have in Jesus.

I wonder, have you read the books on all the things that don't add up in the Koran?


Last edited by Walks_in_islam; 09-06-2009 at 07:58 AM.
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  #79  
Old 09-06-2009, 10:35 AM
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Re: Biblical Contradiction?

The validity of the word

In reading the other day I realized that could we have put together to much of the writtings, that we call our bible? I am putting out here three scriptures that are used to keep the bible in a area of high regard.

Rev 22:18, Deut 4:2, Deut 12:32, Proverbs 30:6, Matt 15:6-9, Lets start from the beginning.
Deu 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Many are the time this verse and the one in Revelations have been used to preach we are not to add to or take away from Gods word. But how did we arrive at the word we have as being Gods word. For that matter how did others arrive at the books they have as being Gods word or words. I can only speak for the bible and even then I could be wrong. I am finding that out alot the more I study. So feel free to jump in and give me your veiw if you think I am wrong. But as I understand much of the OT was put together because Jesus spoke or quoted from those books in his earthly ministry. I just had to put that in there because right now it is his heavenly kingdom we are building.

The NT books I am not so sure how they were arrived at there were many christians writters on the first centery, how they came to the conclusion that the books that are part of the NT were or are the NT Im not sure. The point is these verses we keep quoteing to give the word authority do not cover the bible as a whole. And we should remember that. Deut. 4:2 This is Moses speaking to Isreal and it refers to commandments he got from Godand passed to Isreal. This does not include the rest of the bible whether we want it to or not.

Agian eu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Moses is speaking of the words in this chapter only. Even though we might reason that it is all Gods word we cannot apply these words the the rest of what we call the bible.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now I repeat John's book is John's book, it does not include the rest of what we call the bible!!! Now Ive left the best for last.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Now while many use this passage to say this brings the whole bible under the word of God, it accualy only brings those words that are spoken by God. History does not come under this cover, and the discrepancys in the bible fall under the area of history. Our faith should not be based on the inconsitancys of one writter of history to another, there will always be inconsitancys. Even in our own history books we can find this. But our faith is based on the message of the gospel of salvation, of God reconciling the world to himself through Christ Jesus.
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  #80  
Old 09-08-2009, 07:55 AM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Biblical Contradiction?

Ferreting out the words of God from the words of men in the bible does not leave much. The bible, after this is done, looks a great deal like the Quran.......which is a highly interesting outcome.
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