Rules, laws, commands -- call them what you will. God demands that you do certain things, and that you don't do certain other things. He has communicated this list to mankind through The Bible. The actual contents of the list are up for discussion, but I think there is universal agreement here that God has such a list.
I think all Apostolics would agree that one of God's requirements is to believe. We must believe what people have written about God. Actually, make that what certain people have written: the ones who wrote the Bible, of course! And we must believe it, even if we can't find evidence that it is true. Like Jesus told Thomas (see post #1 ), we will be blessed if we believe without seeing. This is not to say that nobody can find such evidence! Just that, even if you can't, you still must believe. And if you think you see evidence against it, you still must believe.
The rules have changed, over time. There used to be a God-given list of forbidden foods, for example. And mixing types of thread in clothing used to be a sin. And it used to be that you could be forgiven of your sins by killing and burning an animal. Now-a-days, I don't think there are Apostolics who feel compelled to follow all the rules that ever were -- just the ones that haven't been repealed (whatever they are!) and the ones that have been added.
Some people think it's crucial that we all understand exactly what is on God's list of dos and don'ts. That makes sense, actually. If we disobey something on the list, even if we didn't know it was there, we apparently are held accountable for the sin, anyway. Yes, we can sin and not even know it. So yeah, I suppose we better know what the list is! Some think they do know, but it seems that others aren't really sure. They do what they know, and hope for the best. Either that, or they follow all the purported rules they've heard -- just in case!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
There is some discussion over the details, such as the exact mechanism (does God get into your head and literally control the speech function, or what?) and proper use (interpretations of 1 Cor 14 vary, e.g.), but you all (far as I can tell) agree on this: it's the real thing, and it's supernatural. I think you also would agree that there can be fake tongues. But, when it is the real deal, there seems to be agreement on certain uses and purposes of tongues:
Initial Evidence
Aside from whether it is necessary for salvation or not, when there is a filling with or baptism in the Holy Spirit, tongues will be spoken. Not sure if there is unanimity on exceptions, such as mute people, so let's leave that issue aside. The norm, at least, is tongues, put it that way. Also not sure if everyone agrees with how to account for the possibility of fake tongues in the "initial evidence" doctrine. Actually, I'm not sure how anyone accounts for it. But again, leave it aside. You all seem to agree: speaking in tongues will occur when one is filled with or baptized in the Spirit. (Are those terms interchangeable, or have I touched on another disputed point?)
Prayer Language
One can and should "pray in tongues". (Unanimous on this, are you? I think so.) Praying in English is fine, but in tongues, it's even better. The idea is that sometimes, humans don't know what to pray for. The Holy Spirit then can "take over" the praying, and give you the words to pray. Normally, you never find out what it was you were praying about. Sometimes, you might find out later that so-and-so was having some kind of problem, and at the same time you were praying in tongues, they found the solution. That's always nice, but rest assured: even if you don't hear such confirmation, God really was praying through you, and it was about something important, and it (most likely) got results. (God is more likely to answer what are, in effect, His own prayers!)
A variation of this type of speaking in tongues is simple praise and worship, in tongues. (I'm not really sure how this one is supported, either by scripture or by logic -- God giving you the words to say for praising Himself? -- and maybe it's not 100% agreed on, so I'll just leave it there.)
Messages in Tongues
At an appropriate time in a church service (always decently and in order!), someone may speak out a message in tongues. Usually, it's someone in the congregation, standing and speaking loudly enough for everyone to hear. Then, when it's over, there may be a short time of silence while everyone waits for the interpretation. That's when someone else (or, rarely, the same person again) stands and speaks out the interpretation of that message: some kind of encouragement, or admonishment, or ... well, anything the Lord wants to communicate to this particular congregation: both the tongues and the English interpretation came from Him.
Preaching in a Human Language
Occasionally, someone will give a message in tongues that is in a human language, and one that has never been learned by the speaker. Chinese, for example. Someone hearing it will be a native speaker of that language, and get some kind of blessing (or feel conviction) from the message. The event, of course, is also spoken of many times afterward, as confirmation that tongues really are real (at least, that time), and their church/fellowship/denomination really is in touch with God.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
This is what it's all about. God's Good News. The reason (the only reason) for hope. It's The Solution to The Problem.
What's The Problem? I touched on it in Part 2. Every human being is evil, and destined for (possibly) eternal punishment for being evil. If there were no solution to this problem, that would be a pretty sad situation! Everyone lives their lives and ends up in Hell. Every single human being that ever lived! They would all wish they had never been born!
But there is a solution. Hooray! There is salvation! For everyone! Everyone that believes and obeys, that is. Which, of course, is why it is fair and just that (probably) most of the people who ever lived will end up in Hell. They were offered a way out and didn't take it, so it's their own fault.
And what is the solution? Well, the way things are set up, if you ever commit a sin -- any sin, big or small -- and everyone has committed at least one sin -- you have to die. Well, more correctly, somebody or something has to die. In the Old Testament, that could be an animal. A lamb could take your punishment for you, if the proper ritual was done, and God would be happy and give you a clean slate. That was pretty cool, I suppose, but now-a-days, there's an even better way! God's Son died, instead of millions of animals! That sure is good news for all those lambs, isn't it?
Oh yes, of course, it's good news for us, too. No more messy sacrifices on altars. And those animals can be put to other good uses, like food and wool.
And God gave us His Son, why? Because He loved us! Even when we were sinners! His Son became the Lamb of God, sacrificed -- yes, killed -- for us! Can you imagine allowing your child to die for the benefit of mankind? But that's just what God Himself did. His Son died! And stayed dead for three days!
That's not the whole story, of course. There is something we have to do before we "qualify" for this salvation. To get it, there is one or more steps to be taken. But I can't get into that in the "What You (All) Believe" series, of course!
Oh, I should also mention that this new way of salvation (replacing the animal sacrifice method) is now the only way. Killing animals won't work, anymore. That's a pretty important part of The Good News!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I checked out the whole thread, yes all 8 pages... lol. Pretty entertaining stuff. I'm no longer apostolic either but I'd say its a pretty good overview so far. Just curious timmy, why aren't you?
I checked out the whole thread, yes all 8 pages... lol. Pretty entertaining stuff. I'm no longer apostolic either but I'd say its a pretty good overview so far. Just curious timmy, why aren't you?
Because it doesn't make sense to me!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
What took me so long? Part seven, for crying out loud?!
Well, of course, you guys believe there is one God. Not two. Not five. Not three. Just one. And this doctrine is so important that some of you use it to define yourselves: you are Oneness!
Well, I guess that's all there is to say. End of Part 7.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Interesting post, enjoyed it. Petty and Cacioppo's "Elaboration Likelihood Model" (ELM) details two of the primary processing routes of reasoning. Peripheral route, in which a person relies on limited involvement, and makes executive judgments based on some arrangement of (trivial) persuasions. And the central route, which requires a person to utilize the highest forms of thought. Imo, the central is often underdeveloped and not often exercised by most good people concerning the above topics. Most people are willing to accept the things told them, or trained into them, by authority figures in their life. I believe you hit upon the key thing though...synergy
Thanks for the comments.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
), we will be blessed if we believe without seeing. This is not to say that nobody can find such evidence! Just that, even if you can't, you still must believe. And if you think you see evidence against it, you still must believe.
-- and maybe it's not 100% agreed on, so I'll just leave it there.)
Keep up the great writing.
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