I think context is important in examining Aquila's statement ....
having read ... Aquila's and Miss B's discussion ... I see that Aquila in one of his political rants made it clear that in our circles if one is a Democrat one is not "saved" or is "backslidden" ...
He's absolutely right ... let's be honest here. It's a myth perpetuated in our circles.
Furthermore ... the offer by Miss B for prayer seemed to be centered around equating Aquila's political statements with spirituality or the lack thereof.... she even suggested that she has been in need of prayer when she felt "far away from God".
It's pretty clear that Aquila in his huff ... would perceive this to be a jab ... fairly or unfairly ... hence in this context he does not want her prayers ...
and I think it's justified.
Thank you for your honesty.
You'll never know how much hate filled rhetoric and insults I face every election cycle because I'm not a right wing conservative. I'm a political moderate who leans liberal on some things....and I get treated like absolute dirt if I so much as breathe a word of concern for the unintended effects of right wing policy.
After last Wednesday at Church I came to an epiphany....the institutional Apostolic churches (at least those that I'm familiar with) are nothing but right wing political action committees. Something in me snapped....I realized that I can no longer identify myself with the church...because the church hates people like me. People who believe in universal health insurance are, "Godless socialists", I heard it with my own ears. They don't even care why I believe it may be necessary. Most don't even know that I lost my mother last year....and had she had health insurance, she might have caught her heart condition before it killed her.
Here was another statement I heard....the pastor said, "I'm not going to tell you how to vote...but I will tell you this. There's one party that's on God's side....and another party that's FOR abortion, homosexuality, socialism, and everything Satanic...." Gee....I'm glad he didn't tell me who to vote for. The man thinks I'm stupid.
I just disagree. I think abortion and homosexuality are issues that are outside of the government's capability to properly address. The government can't do very much with those issues. They have always pleagued society and frankly, always will. I think that socialism is wrong...but a mixed economy is necessary. But hey...I'm a Godless socialist....who cares what I think or why I think it.
My wife and I are seriously discussing not going back again. We sat there feeling brow beaten and misrepresented for over an hour. We're considering either dropping church all together or visiting an Episcopal church (My wife's uncle is an Episcopal priest and has offered to help us find a loving community of faith.).
You'll never know how much hate filled rhetoric and insults I face every election cycle because I'm not a right wing conservative. I'm a political moderate who leans liberal on some things....and I get treated like absolute dirt if I so much as breathe a word of concern for the unintended effects of right wing policy.
After last Wednesday at Church I came to an epiphany....the institutional Apostolic churches (at least those that I'm familiar with) are nothing but right wing political action committees. Something in me snapped....I realized that I can no longer identify myself with the church...because the church hates people like me. People who believe in universal health insurance are, "Godless socialists", I heard it with my own ears. They don't even care why I believe it may be necessary. Most don't even know that I lost my mother last year....and had she had health insurance, she might have caught her heart condition before it killed her.
Here was another statement I heard....the pastor said, "I'm not going to tell you how to vote...but I will tell you this. There's one party that's on God's side....and another party that's FOR abortion, homosexuality, socialism, and everything Satanic...." Gee....I'm glad he didn't tell me who to vote for. The man thinks I'm stupid.
I just disagree. I think abortion and homosexuality are issues that are outside of the government's capability to properly address. The government can't do very much with those issues. They have always pleagued society and frankly, always will. I think that socialism is wrong...but a mixed economy is necessary. But hey...I'm a Godless socialist....who cares what I think or why I think it.
My wife and I are seriously discussing not going back again. We sat there feeling brow beaten and misrepresented for over an hour. We're considering either dropping church all together or visiting an Episcopal church (My wife's uncle is an Episcopal priest and has offered to help us find a loving community of faith.).
I can identify with you. Went through the same kind of thing in the AG, though not [important edit, there!] as severely. Actually, I kept my views to myself, usually, knowing the consequences of disagreeing!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Which is to say, God doesn't make sense. I agree. If by "God" we mean God as described in the Bible.
Which I don't, by the way. If God had written (inspired) a Book, it would be true. It would not describe God's workings incorrectly. Is James 5:15 true? If the elders lay their hands on the sick, will they recover? Maybe, sometimes. (The sick sometimes recover without that, too.) But not always. So, again I ask, is James 5:15true?
I know what your answer will be, of course: Yes, of course, it's true. We just don't understand why God doesn't always heal. Which is another way of saying (without admitting it) that we don't understand why James 5:15 and the myriad other such promises are not true.
It makes no sense to claim something is true, while explaining that we can't know God's ways and we can't understand with our puny minds why God doesn't do what He allegedly said He would do. It makes no sense and serves no useful purpose to wave these things off, saying God defies logic, God is God, He can do whatever He wants (including breaking His word!).
How about John 14:13? Is that really true? Will Jesus do whatever you ask in His name? Why yes, you'll say. Of course that's true. It's Bible. The thing is, it has to be according to His will, ya see.
In other words, God will do whatever you ask Him to, as long as it's something He already wants to do anyway. So, what would be the point? Are there some things God wants to do, but has decided to wait until someone asks Him to do them? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Again, please explain to me where my reasoning has failed.
Unless "God defies logic" is all ya got. Can't argue with that, so, I guess we're done.
More precisely, God defies your human "logic." If we were on the same plane as God--I believe we would see that he is very orderly, very true to his Word, the whole of it, down to the jot and tittle. "That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:" (Ac 17: 27). God is not contacted thru the mind or the physical. You must contact him by faith. Honestly, Timmy, from reading some of your posts, I think you have special gifts. I think you could be used greatly by God. You would have a unique way of teaching the truths of Gods Word. But you would first have to come to believe them yourself. I wonder why you come here? Anyway, if you do not believe the Bible, if you believe, as you write, that his promises fail, then I agree, we are done.
More precisely, God defies your human "logic." If we were on the same plane as God--I believe we would see that he is very orderly, very true to his Word, the whole of it, down to the jot and tittle. "That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:" (Ac 17: 27). God is not contacted thru the mind or the physical. You must contact him by faith. Honestly, Timmy, from reading some of your posts, I think you have special gifts. I think you could be used greatly by God. You would have a unique way of teaching the truths of Gods Word. But you would first have to come to believe them yourself. I wonder why you come here? Anyway, if you do not believe the Bible, if you believe, as you write, that his promises fail, then I agree, we are done.
So, can't refute my claims, then?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I don't know if it's right or wrong ... many different factors mitigate in various unique scenarios ....
I will say that often the " I will pray for you ... " phrase can be overdone.
Sometimes it's genuine but insensitive ... sometimes it's not ... sometimes its used to be manipulative and sometimes ignorantly misdirected.
Some use it as spiritual arsenal against a brother, also.
What I mean by this is that.... one may say this believing one has a moral superiority, a better understanding .... or say it to stick it to the other person that they somehow know what's better for them ... or are "in the right".
If done in the midst of an argument or disagreement... I'm often skeptical ...
Why does one have to announce it ... why not just do it?
Have you ever worked with folks that had PTSD? Sometimes that thing that happened 20 years ago is very much alive and hurting like it happened yesterday. It was explained to me how the hemisphere's of the brain communicate and how a painful or traumatic event can become lodged in the brain's functionality to the point that all of life and experience is processed and filtered through the experience by the brain. It often requires a psychotherapy such as EMDR to resolve the issue. I'm not a big fan of EMDR....I don't buy into all of it. But many say it's helped them when nothing else (even prayer and fasting) could.
*shudder* Waaaaay off topic, but I tried EMDR. I don't know what that stuff is, but it did NOT NOT NOT work for me. Like, now I hope I don't have those nightmares again, did not work for me. I've never, ever in my life had such a strong terror reaction to anything as I did to those dreams I had after my first session, and the second, and that was so the very end of that experiment.
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You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
*shudder* Waaaaay off topic, but I tried EMDR. I don't know what that stuff is, but it did NOT NOT NOT work for me. Like, now I hope I don't have those nightmares again, did not work for me. I've never, ever in my life had such a strong terror reaction to anything as I did to those dreams I had after my first session, and the second, and that was so the very end of that experiment.
Sad to hear you had a bad time of it. There are other therapies if you're having trouble with PTSD.
Well, usually you can tell if someone is saying they will pray for you and they genuinely mean they will pray for you, they are rooting for you and will go to God on your behalf...
And when someone is being judgmental or condescending.
I admit I used to refuse prayer by some and would tell them so.
I realized that some people mean well but simply do NOT know how to pray for your situation. They do not know what is needed to help you. So they just say I will pray for you. I don't take offense to that, neither do I think one should.
But...
Those times when you are in confrontation or something, and someone says they will pray for you, in a condescending way, I find it best now to not address them.
Saying, "I don't need your stinking rotten prayers" will only add fuel to the fire. The person saying that is not hearing you no how and they feel they are in a position to pray you out of something.
Now, the catch is to determine if they really CAN pray you to another level of understanding and revelation.
If so, just eat humble pie and let them pray.
But if they are steeped in spiritual or religious pride and no matter what you say they are under the impression they are 'superior,' then let them be, too.
Even if they 'pray' for you, only God's will for your life will prosper and manifest anyways, right?
God knows how to make your enemies your footstool.
I have seen Him do it time and time again....
The first shall be last and the last shall be first....
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Going up in the Spirit Realm....
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