A Handmaids Tale

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You might find this interesting.

Is Judaism Socialist or Capitalist?
https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Capitalist.htm

Its CHABAD!!!

Good God from Zion!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Evidently, we are to empower the government with the power to spend the money to prosecute and execute citizens, but not to run a food stamp program for the elderly and single parents.

I have been told that the way a person spends their money reveals the kind of person an individual is. The same can be said of a nation.

The reasons names were blotted out of ancient city log books, was because of criminal act or death.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I have been told that the way a person spends their money reveals the kind of person an individual is. The same can be said of a nation.

So, when are you leaving?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I ask for names of someone wrongfully executed and you give me one which I believe, but it is from 1887!
1887?
Really?

And the other one, his wife said that he confessed to her that he did it before his execution.
Now whether she is believable or not is debatable, but I think that throws that one back to disputed.

Sweet love of God, Chris, I really thought there was a glimmer of hope when you signed off and said you were going to leave for awhile for some self reflection. Sadly, that isn't in the cards for you. What a waste, contemplate this on the tree of woe.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

yes the govt should punish evil, just don't think capital punishment for everything is a great idea.

I had never considered the possible rise of a Christian society, that parallels Muslim Sharia law, and I was just very curious and wanted to talk about it.

I know that you are a theonomist and it is the one thing about you that baffles me and I wanted to talk about that.

Also, I don't relish the idea of losing the right to vote, speak in in any sort of public discourse, have any type of money or property, and who knows what else as a female.

Well, let's talk about it.

First, let me make clear what theonomy is. The word means "God's Law". By God's Law is meant the whole Bible, the entire Word of God. The fundamental premise or basic idea behind theonomy is that God, being our Creator, has the Right to dictate how mankind should live. God's authority extends not only to certain individuals, but ALL individuals, all families, all tribes, all nations.

Since all individuals owe God allegiance, it follows then that all nations, all societies, all organizations of men, likewise owe God allegiance. All government, whether individual, family, or national, owe God their obedience.

Theonomy assumes as a fact that God knows best how we are to live. It follows that God knows best how to organize a society. God took Israel, formed them into a nation, and gave them Law for the governing of their society. Israel was supposed to be the example to all other nations, especially in how a society is supposed to function (Deut 4:5-8). So that the nations would learn how to live the "right way" (cf Isaiah 2:3).

Furthermore, theonomy asserts the mission of the church is to teach all nations to obey Christ (Matt 28:18-20) and that includes declaring to civil authorities the word of God on all subjects (Eph 3:10).

So, what all the Word says on the subject of, say family life, is God's revealed will for family life. And is BEST for families. Likewise, what all the Word says on the subject of government, is God's revealed will for government. And is BEST for government.

So, any questions you have are welcomed.

[Esaias]

"(I) just don't think capital punishment for everything is a great idea. "

God's Law does not prescribe capital punishment for "everything". The following crimes, however, ARE capital crimes:

Murder
Rape
Adultery
Fornication (whether straight, gay, bestial, etc)
Kidnapping
Blasphemy
Idolatry
Inciting to idolatry
Physically assaulting one's parents
Habitual and incorrigible delinquincy
Cursing one's parents
Willful criminal anarchy (including willful Sabbath-breaking)
Not restraining your animal, if known to be dangerous, and you were warned, and it kills someone.
Witchcraft.
Witness perjury in a capital trial.

There may be one or two more, not sure.

God's Law also requires a minimum of two witnesses to the alleged crime. Further, if a witness is found commit perjury (lies) in a capital case, that witness will face the death penalty. In some cases, like a parental complaint of incorrigible delinquincy, the complainant who brings suit is required to take part in the execution of the sentence (which undoubtedly would cut down on the likelihood of bringing the complaint to begin with).

The Law requires witnesses, judges, and procedures. Thus, "vigilante justice" is not allowed except in certain cases such as government abandoning justice and encouraging crime, or in the case of manslaughter. Although in that latter case, provision is made for the manslaughterer to escape the revenge of his victim's kinfolk by going to a place of refuge for a specified time.

So, it's not "the death penalty for everything" under Biblical Law.

Under man's law, however, the death penalty could, and often has been, demanded for the most ridiculous things. If you smart off to a police officer, for example, you can find yourself dead before you know it, and you will be blamed for "non compliance". Stop paying property taxes? Men with guns will show up and flat out kill you if you don't comply.

Meanwhile, under man's law, murderers, rapists, kidnappers, etc are released into the wild after spending several years in a prison. They are usually worse when they get out than when they went in. And their life of crime often continues unabated.

God knows best, however.

[Esaias]

"I had never considered the possible rise of a Christian society, that parallels Muslim Sharia law..."

Every society has law. And all law is fundamentally religious and philosophical. The question is not "Will society be governed by religious and/or philosophical views" but rather "Which religious and philosophical views will govern society?"

Shariah is one philosophy of government. Humanism is another. And the Bible presents another philosophy. All three prescribe what is acceptable, and what is forbidden. Again, the question is simply "Which is best?" As a Christian, the answer should be obvious...

[Esaias]

"I don't relish the idea of losing the right to vote, speak in in any sort of public discourse, have any type of money or property, and who knows what else as a female."

1. Voting
Women in western society have pretty much never had the right to vote for elected government officials, or in referendums on laws. In fact, most men likewise have not had the right to vote on such things. When "the popular vote" (ie the "peoples vote") became popularised and more common, it was usually restricted to men who owned property. I have not actually studied the question "Is voting for political office even Biblical?" to be honest but now that it's been brought up I am going to look into it more. But, as far as women voting, I think the Bible is pretty clear that women ought not hold public office (see Isaiah 3:12). I am not entirely certain that the Bible explicitly forbids women from holding any public office, although I would actually be somewhat surprised if it did not. But I do believe extending the franchise to women has been disastrous. The reason is, in a functioning society, most adult women are going to be married. By having a family's influence split between two votes (the man and the woman) the elective power of the man is reduced. This seems to be a usurpation of the man's vote. Since women are, Biblically, under the authority of their husbands (or their parents if unmarried, unless perhaps widowed), it seems that by "giving women the right to vote" what was intended was the destruction of the family as a voting block or influence in politics. So, I would not be surprised at all if the Bible restricts voting - assuming voting is even Biblical - to men.

2. Public speaking
I don't know that the Bible forbids women from speaking in public. It forbids women from speaking in an authoritative manner in the church, and this might find a parallel principle in matters of government. But I do not see where the Bible simply forbids women from speaking in public. In fact, I can find numerous Bible instances of women speaking in public.

3. Owning money or property
There is no Scripture that says women cannot or ought not own money or property.

4. Who knows what else as a female
Your husband (or father, if unmarried) can cancel any vow you make, when he hears about it, if he disagrees with it (Num 30:3-16).
Other than that, I am not sure that much else would actually change in regards to "what women can or cannot do in a Biblical society". If you are a Christian, surely you already seek to live according to God's Word for women? So I doubt you would even notice much of a difference if all of a sudden America became a Bible-based nation. At least as far as a woman's rights, etc.

Under the Bible, you still get to drive a car and go shopping.



Okay, I know that came across like Archie Bunker. Sorry. Just kidding. No, you CAN drive a car and go shopping, I meant I was just kidding when I made it sound like that's all you should be concerned about. ahem. Scuse me.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Amanah, Chavez could have been branded either way????
Seriously?
Is that why Bernie Sanders, Sean Penn, Oliver Stone, Danny Glover and Jesse Jackson supported him?
Chavez was a total leftist.

I am really puzzled about your entire point in this thread.
Antichrist right wing or left wing?

I'm making the assumption that religion is conservative and hierarchal and therefore politically to the right.

I was also considering the implications of this govt being running by conservative Christians and what that would look like.

The only example we have of a bible based govt is in the OT, and that did not turn out well, it resulted in God sending prophets to the leaders begging them to govern justly, and God eventually disowning His people and having them destroyed.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Don't worry, America won't be following the Bible any time soon. The "Christians" will make sure of that.

there are 1000 varieties of Christians, who determines which ones would institute and legislate a govt?