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11-19-2014, 07:17 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
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Originally Posted by Aquila
One such as God is fully capable of accurately using language to express what He means. Language doesn't limit Him. Therefore, I would expect to surely be able to turn to what the Bible actually says, and the implications of those statements, and know the truth about God.
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You're not getting my point.
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...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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11-19-2014, 07:19 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
Please re-read your statement above. You are saying that there is nothing that could occur in communication between the Father and the Son, as seen in Scripture, that would allow me to see the truth, if you are right in how you are describing God. Don't you see, that's my point? We don't walk away with your view being established by what we see in Scripture. Your view isn't expressed... in Scripture.
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Again you totally missed my point. i said, JUST FOR sake of argument, say my view is correct.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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11-19-2014, 07:59 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Again you totally missed my point. i said, JUST FOR sake of argument, say my view is correct.
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Okay, just for sake of argument, the position you presented would have us unable to take the clear and present language, meaning, and implications of the Scriptures at face value. It would totally deny the mutual indwelling that Jesus Himself describes in clear detail and language.
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11-19-2014, 08:01 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
You're not getting my point.
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I get your point. However, I am pointing out that your point demands a denial of the Scriptures clear and present language and implications.
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11-19-2014, 08:06 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
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Originally Posted by mfblume
Same arguments as trinitarians.
I am surprised.
Why does it have to be an illusion is genuine humanity is involved without there being two persons?? Ii believe we cannot throw human examples as a basis onto this issue. Again, when God is involved, pullout all the plugs. Can you not imagine God doing things beyond human abilities in this regard?
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So, we can't take the language and implications of Scripture at face value. This demands that we impose a theological assumption upon the text that is alien to the implications and clear language of the text itself.
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11-19-2014, 08:36 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
What if you're wrong and you can trust the words as written?
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The problem is, what do the words, as written, mean?
Merely being able to read does not mean you understand
Act 8:29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, Go near and join yourself to this chariot.
Act 8:30 And Philip ran there to him and heard him read the prophet Isaiah, and said, Do you indeed understand what you are reading?
Act 8:31 And he said, How can I unless some man should guide me? And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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11-19-2014, 08:38 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
There are several versions of Oneness theology Rev. Blume. Not all are Modalistic.
What if it isn't "something else" and the very words used and their implications can be trusted?
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Oneness as it pertains to Oneness THEOLOGY and not a mystical Oneness with the universe, always was about emphasizing that God is ONE as opposed to Three persons
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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11-19-2014, 08:38 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
I truly believe in the reality of the man, Jesus Christ... and His Father, God Almighty.
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So you believe in 2 Persons...
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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11-19-2014, 08:39 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
I agree but add that Jesus is his own Father as well as mine.
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So you believe in two persons...(Because that is what Aquila is saying and you agree)
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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11-19-2014, 08:41 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
It all depends upon what one means by "person". I see the man Jesus Christ as being a complete an authentic "human person" who clearly has a distinct sense of "self" as it relates to His Father. However, Jesus Himself states that He is "in" the Father and that the Father is "in" Him. This expresses a mutual indwelling, a union of being. They are... a single being. The man, Jesus Christ, and the Father are... "one". This "oneness" of spiritual essence allows each to partake in all that the other is. Therefore, it can be said that the man Jesus Christ was also God... and that in the man Jesus Christ... God had become a man.
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So you believe in two persons...and they are both God?
BTW your language is explicitly Trinitarian. You are rephrasing the Periochoresis of Persons.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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