Why Sunday

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Common sense is the need for a day of rest. Even science realizes that without it, labourers simply cannot do what they otherwise could. That's an assessment that's totally apart from scripture.

So common sense affirms and supports the fourth commandment.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why did God Himself rest on the Sabbath?

Could it of had a deeper meaning? Jesus telling us to come under His yoke and there we will have sabbath?

Good question. God didn't rest in the sense of recuperation after exertion. Rather, He simply ceased in His work of Creation. Not of course that He never did anything after that, but that He was making the heavens and the earth and their contents for six days then He stopped. He then blessed that seventh day, and hallowed it (sanctified it or set it apart for holy purposes). Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man. Clearly then God "rested" on that day to give man something. Not merely an opportunity to rest our bodies from labour, but also an opportunity to teach man about regulating his life in honour to God the Creator. By doing that a pattern is established - our work culminates in glory to God (ought to, anyway). Lots of lessons and principles associated with the Sabbath. It's always a joy to draw out the hidden treasures of the Word.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Good question. God didn't rest in the sense of recuperation after exertion. Rather, He simply ceased in His work of Creation. Not of course that He never did anything after that, but that He was making the heavens and the earth and their contents for six days then He stopped. He then blessed that seventh day, and hallowed it (sanctified it or set it apart for holy purposes). Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man. Clearly then God "rested" on that day to give man something. Not merely an opportunity to rest our bodies from labour, but also an opportunity to teach man about regulating his life in honour to God the Creator. By doing that a pattern is established - our work culminates in glory to God (ought to, anyway). Lots of lessons and principles associated with the Sabbath. It's always a joy to draw out the hidden treasures of the Word.

Therefore God would continue to rest on the sabbaths, to be with His family?
Correct?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Therefore God would continue to rest on the sabbaths, to be with His family?
Correct?

Hmm. He calls His Sabbaths "appointments", set times for meeting with His people. I don't think it's a matter of Him ceasing some activity but rather of us ceasing our routine activities in order to meet with Him in various ways. So then it sounds like you are asking "Does God keep the Sabbath?" which I think is a very interesting question that opens up a line of thought I had not really considered before. Does God keep Sabbath?

I think in a sense yes He does, in that He seems to reckon time according to the calendar He gave in the Bible. But not in the sense of regularly ceasing from His usual activities (He has no need of recuperation). Interesting idea, that God participates with us in the things we do. Does God go to church with us? In a sense yes. At least I would hope so, no sense going to church without Him.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hmm. He calls His Sabbaths "appointments", set times for meeting with His people. I don't think it's a matter of Him ceasing some activity but rather of us ceasing our routine activities in order to meet with Him in various ways. So then it sounds like you are asking "Does God keep the Sabbath?" which I think is a very interesting question that opens up a line of thought I had not really considered before. Does God keep Sabbath?

I think in a sense yes He does, in that He seems to reckon time according to the calendar He gave in the Bible. But not in the sense of regularly ceasing from His usual activities (He has no need of recuperation). Interesting idea, that God participates with us in the things we do. Does God go to church with us? In a sense yes. At least I would hope so, no sense going to church without Him.

Now that we have gone from a hill in Jerusalem to a worldwide worship center. He still has a time to meet us, and that on a day seperated for all of us. Now not that He needs to take a load off, and catch some rays on the porch. No, it is a time of worship, were we all come together (God first and foremost) and have communion with Him. Maybe I'm reading to much into it?

[mfblume]

When we read that Paul stated that Law was a schoolmaster, the question arises as to whether or not any Law ought to be followed if something such as the sabbath day commandment is no longer obligatory. It seems to imply that we don't have to do what the law and the prophets actually say to do if the law and the prophets were fulfilled by Jesus.

This question is related to the same argument that says that violating any of the other 10 Commandments is acceptable if violating one of the 10 Commandments is acceptable. And, of course, that is not the case.

In order to understand exactly what Paul meant by the Law standing as a schoolmaster until Jesus arrived, and Christ being the end of the law for those who believe, we can compare this to another passage written by Paul.

Hebrews 9:8-10 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: (9) Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; (10) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

The Two Tabernacles that were mentioned in Hebrews chapter 9 depicting the Two Covenants, the First Tabernacle speaks of Law. You could not enter the second tabernacle so long as the first one was standing. The Law had to be removed so that we could enter the New Covenant. So, when we read that reformation occurred when meats, drinks, diverse washings and carnal ordinances were no longer imposed, we learn exactly what is actually over and ended. He spoke about ceremonial rites along with the overall method of urging yourself toward good works without the power of God enabling us.

In order to understand how Law is described as this kind of method, we must turn to Paul’s more elaborate explanation on the issue in the Letter to the Romans.

Romans Chapter 7 explained that the service to God that was described as “oldness of the letter” was compared to the New Covenant’s manner of “newness of Spirit.” He went on and explained that Law imposed demands for Israel to do what Paul described in the same chapter as performance of the good deeds of the Law.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

He specifically said that we are delivered from the Law just as much as a woman whose husband died is set free from her marriage by that death. Paul used this comparison of marriage as it is laid out in the writings of the Law itself. Deuteronomy 22:22-4, Leviticus 20:10, and Exodus 20:14 all speak against adultery. That’s the reason that he told them that he spoke to them who knew the Law (Rom. 7:1). Any Law that exists only has dominion over a man so long as he is alive. It has the right to command him and direct and even punish him. But when he dies, the servant is freed from his master, so to speak.
What Law did Paul refer to when he spoke to those who knew the Law, and understood that the Law has power over a person during his or her lifetime? It was obviously the Old Covenant Law. And that same Law, according to the context of Chapter 7, was compared to a cruel husband from whom the wife seeks to be delivered. This deliverance requires a death.


Job compared death to a sleep, after having questioned the reason for his birth because of all of his calamities. In having described his longing to not live, he then stated that the servant is then free from his master (Job 3:19).

While Paul was speaking about the Law of Moses, he noted that death was indeed involved in the effort to free us from this marriage to Law. So, the oldness of the letter is understood to be a miserable existence like the marriage of a woman to miserable husband, because man cannot successfully keep it. Paul describes that misery in the remaining verses of the chapter, including his words about the anguish of desiring to keep the law but finding that there is a force of sin in his flesh that disables him from doing so.
Paul said that the manner in which God delivers us from the Law is through the death of Jesus Christ, which is evident by understanding that Romans 7:25 refers back to 7:6.

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. (5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. (6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

By comparing these passages, we clearly see that the motions of sin are in our bodily members, and cause the fruit of death to come forth. This is the reason that Paul cried out to learn who could deliver him from his body of death. The answer was God and that God must deliver us from the Law, because the motions of sin were caused by the law. He explained that, when Law commanded him to not covet, he suddenly could not resist the over-whelming urges to covet.

Romans 7:7-8 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. (8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Sin used the Law like a weapon to kill the law-keeper. Law was not the evil entity whatsoever. The enemy was sin that used Law to slay the law-keeper when the Law was ordained to give life. It would have given life had there not been sin in our bodies.
Therefore, the death that frees a person from Law took place through Jesus Christ’s vicarious death that counted as our own deaths. So, the woman who could be freed from the marriage to her husband by a death, rep-resents a believer whose death took place through Jesus Christ, like a proxy-death, and is thereby freed from the Law.

God freed Paul from the miserable body that contained sin through the means of Jesus Christ’s death that counted as Paul’s. For this reason, Romans 6:3 ex-plained that baptism into Jesus is actually being baptized into Christ’s death, making His death count as our own. Our deaths with Jesus mean that His death counted as ours.

Paul then introduced the explanation for what he wrote in verse 6 about he newness of the Spirit.

Let us understand first that the letter that describes the Law was considered to be old.¬ And the Spirit was considered new. The Old Covenant was focused on the letter, and the New Covenant emphasizes the Spirit. So, when we read a summary of the problem that Paul described when he said that he served the law of sin with his body while he serves the law of God with his mind, we understand that he referred to the desire to keep the law and obey its deeds, but he was unable to perform with his body what he agreed within his mind. So far as his mind was concerned, it was in effect keeping the Law simply by having agreed and willed to obey it. But, of course, that is useless if one is unable to carry that willingness through into actual deeds by having his body fulfill those demands.

He then continued in Chapter 8, and said that, because his flesh could not carry out those demands in actual activities, he must not walk after that flesh. Here we see a manner of speaking that Paul used. We must understand this manner of speaking correctly, or miss the purpose that it plays as we read further into Chapter 8.

What does it mean to walk after the flesh?

After having stated that he desired to obey the law in his mind but was unable to perform it using his flesh, he then stated that he served the law of God with his mind. However, he served the law of sin with his flesh. We can, therefore, conclude that the phrase “walking after the flesh” described the attempts to focus on one’s body and carry out those commandments after a person agreed with the Law that he or she was meant to obey it.
We read that, instead of walking after the flesh, we must walk after the Spirit in order to avoid condemnation.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What is this condemnation?

It’s easy to misunderstand this verse by not reading it in context with the last few verses before it in Chapter 7. It sounds as though Paul wrote that we do not have to be afraid of condemnation from God and wind up in hell if we refuse to walk after the flesh by committing sins and wicked acts. However, the Letter to the Romans was not originally written with chapter divisions that can easily make one think that there are completely different thoughts in one chapter than those that we read on the previous one. The condemnation that Paul referred to was related to what he described as the misery that he wrote about in the latter part of Chapter 7. Putting the verses from the end of Chapter 7 together with the beginning of Chapter 8, and noticing that both sets of vers-es speak of the flesh and the Spirit will cause us to grasp the intended understanding.

continued...

[mfblume]

...continued.

Romans 7:23-8:3 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The law of Paul’s mind in 7:23 was the Law of Moses that he willed in his mind and agreed to perform. But there was another law of sin and death in the bodily members of his flesh – his literal arms and legs, etc. And this other law warred against the Law of his mind.
At this point in the reading, we must understand what Paul meant by having written that a law in his members warred against the law of his mind.

When Paul wrote of a law warring against another law, he wrote of the word “law,” describing a series of events that could be predicted if the same conditions were present in each case. For this same reason, the law of gravity is called a law.

When you are in the condition of being on the earth, and you release an object into the air, it falls to the ground. It doesn’t matter where on earth you are, so long as you are on the earth and hold something and then release it, it falls every time, unless the conditions change for the object that you release.

If you held a kite with string, and released the kite with the wind blowing around you, it would not fall but it would be carried by the wind up into the air. That is because another condition is involved, and it's actually part of another law called the law of aerodynamics. If the object has the conditions that are favourable to allow wind to carry the object into the air, it will not fall.


But we are speaking about an object such as a ball, rock or apple. It has no qualities that categorize it under something which is aerodynamic to cause it to not fall to the ground when released.

Because the release of such an object always causes it to fall to the ground when all of the same conditions are met, it is called a law. It happens every time, and you can predict it. That is somewhat of a different use of the word law than what is intended to be understood when Paul wrote of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses is not a manner that explains why the physics of an object that is met with certain conditions causes the object to react in the same way every time. The Law of Moses is a Law of codified jurisdictions where a judge has set certain precedents in order that must be carried out. And if the conditions of violating those commandments exists, the penalties that the same law outlines will be carried out every time.

This means that Paul wrote about a war that ensues when we agree with God’s Law that commands us to obey its precedents, and seek to carry them out with our flesh. He said that this war is one that we cannot win. We will inevitably fail if we seek to obey the Law of Moses with our flesh. It happens every time. Instead of fulfilling the Law of Moses with our flesh, we will fulfill the law of sin and death with our flesh.

Therefore, Paul said that we must not walk after that flesh. It must be recognized that Romans 7:25-8:1 connects the thought of the flesh being used to serve God with the act of walking after the flesh as the cause for condemnation to come upon us. Because we wind up serving the law of sin and death with the flesh, then we can avoid that condemnation by not walking after that flesh. This shows us that the condemnation is not the penalty of going to hell, although people who do sin will suffer hell, but it is saying that it’s the condemnation of suffering the misery of being unable to fulfil the law of God with our bodies and, instead, fulfilling the law of sin and death.

This can only mean that we cannot take the futile route that Paul described as holding a willingness to obey the Law of God in our minds, but being unable to perform that Law with our flesh.

The description that Paul provided about the failure to serve God, was not only called the oldness of the letter, but also walking after the flesh. So, serving God in the old-ness of the letter is walking after the flesh. Walking after the Spirit is something entirely different. We must take what Paul described as the means of failure in Romans Chapter 7 and realize that there is another means of serving God that won’t fail and is called newness of the Spirit.

After having described the method of Paul’s failure as a life of walking after the flesh, he then stated that we should walk after the Spirit, and proceeded to outline the following points.

Romans 8:1-5 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Notice that Paul not only wrote that there is no condemnation to those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, but he also said the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. So, the walk after the Spirit achieves something that the oldness of the letter is unable to cause us to achieve. That something is the law’s righteousness. This informs us that a walk after the Spirit that sees us delivered from the Law is not deliverance from the need for us to obtain the righteousness of the Law. What same righteousness that oldness of the letter required was the righteousness that the newness of Spirit fulfills in our lives.

Paul explained that the Law could not fulfill that righteousness in us. We are then told that God accomplished something in order to see that righteousness fulfilled in us. He did it by sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to condemn sin in the flesh. In other words, because sin was in our flesh and condemned us to defeat, Jesus would take the sin in his flesh to condemn it!

He condemned the condemner!


Paul continued to explain that people who are after the flesh and people who mind and focus their thoughts on the things of the flesh. This gives us a further clue as to how walking after the flesh is struggling in the method to serve God by the oldness of the letter. The struggle that Paul wrote about in Chapter 7 involved minding the things of the flesh. Instead, the walk after the Spirit that we must engage in is defined as minding the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Because verse 5 begins with the word “for”, we must see how that the facts stated in this verse are the reasons for what we read before this verse. Read them together now.

Romans 8:3-5 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

The reason that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in people who don’t walk after the flesh but after the Spirit is that people who are in the flesh mind the things of the flesh. The success in dealing with sin and being righteous before God has to do with what we mind, or think about. He then explains why that is the case.

Romans 8:6-7 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rather than suffer condemnation, we can experience peace. Paul compares the results that exist in our hearts when we walk after the flesh and fail, or what after the flesh and succeed – condemnation versus peace. The fleshly mind leads to death

Paul described his failure to keep the laws of God as an experience of death. The Law was ordained to life but he found that it led to his death. That death was inflicted on him by the power of sin that used Law like a killing weapon. He did not mean a natural, physical death, obviously, but a form of spiritual death. The reason that it kills is due to the fact that the fleshly-thinking mind can never be subject to the Law of God.
He alluded to this earlier in Chapter 7 as follows:

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

continued...

[mfblume]

...continued.


The law is spiritual, therefore, a fleshly mind cannot be subject to it. This shows us that the fleshly mind renders a person carnal. So, when we read, “but I am carnal, sold under sin,” we are intended to understand that it means “but my mind is on fleshly things, causing me to be sold under sin.”

Minding the things of the flesh is putting our primary attention on those things. And having that mush regard on fleshly things clashes with God. How is it that Paul focused his thoughts toward the fleshly things by trying to serve God in the oldness of the letter?
When we consider that Genesis revealed how the first three days of creation, that represented the Old Covenant were the times God formed that which was without form in order to fill those formed places with active movement, we get a hint about what minding the things of the flesh is all about. There was no active and vibrant life in the forming stage of creation, like the Law did not administer life but death. The term “spirit” in the Hebrew is related to the concept of life. Jesus Christ’s words were spirit and life. His words are all of the truths of the New Covenant. God breathed into Adam the breath of Life and became a living soul. Movement and activity were seen int eh stars, sun and moon. It was seen in the water creatures, birds and land creatures. Everything in the latter three days involved active movement. Everything in the first three days involved forming places for that movement and activity.

The physical forming of places was all about the Old Covenant in symbolic form. Minding the things of the Spirit is focusing our thoughts on activity and life. The earthly things are used to prepare for the spiritual things. We will not find life in the forming aspect of God’s work.

There is also the reference to the administration of death that Paul wrote about in 2 Corinthians Chapter 3 that we must apply to this concept of minding the things of the flesh. We then realize that focus on the things of the law is minding the things of the flesh, for there is no life in the things of Law.

We are said to be dead in trespasses and sins in Ephesians 2:1, which are the results in the lives of those who fail to keep the law and commit sins. This, again, is the kind of death that Paul described in Romans Chapters 7 through 8.

The flesh, itself, is not a wicked thing. Paul stated that in his flesh there dwelled the culprit called sin. Since Law was comprised of rituals and ceremonies that involved materialistic concentration on physical efforts that our flesh must carry out, and because sin is in that flesh, then death is bound to ensue. Focusing on rites and ceremonies that urge flesh to act stirs up the sin that is inside that flesh to cause us to commit sins.

Again, please don’t forget that the thing that Paul stated was over and ended was comprised of the foods, drinks, diverse washings and carnal ordinances of Law. The aspects of Law that are about moral issues including the need to not engage in homosexuality, adultery and murder, etc.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So common sense affirms and supports the fourth commandment.

The aspect of the fourth commandment that speaks of a day to rest, but not necessarily the SEVENTH day, yes. And that goes back to what I said about Romans stating the heathens do by nature what the law says.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I remember you posting this in the eschatology section years ago. Could you expand on this thought? Would this also indicate that the Hebrew Sabbath was only regional, and held to a geographical setting? Let me just give you some thoughts. In India the religion of Hinduism cannot really be practiced outside of India. Because its holy places as rivers are only found in India, and when the vedas were being written no Hindu believed their religion would be practiced in a foreign country. The American Indian has the same problem as does the Muslim which must make a pilgrimage every year to Hajj in Mecca. Yes, the Muslim as well as the Hindu will give explanation that you as an adherent to their religion must at least make a holy pilgrimage once you in your lifetime but that is pretty much guru, and Imam will give some excuse why it isn't necessary to make these religious rituals as the original believers did when their religion was exclusively in the land of its nativity. Rabbinical Judaism takes from the Bible and uses 1 Kings 8:44, 1 Kings 8:47-49. Therefore the Rabbinical Talmudic Jews face the east to pray towards Jerusalem, and the Muslims do the same with Mecca. Both groups taking a religion which in time past was totally dependent on its geographic location.

So, Brother Blume, would you also say that the sabbath, according to the biblical people of that time was geographical?

Yes, exactly. Like the temple. It was in Jerusalem and you had to go there for the three feasts. But now it is spirituallly everywhere. Sabbath foreshadowed a universal opportunity for people to rest because it is not based on what time period the sun is in relation tot eh earth to cause physical days.