Health Insurance

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

Hoping my bill is not too high, was admitted and kept for a day and a half after showing up in ER....

Gah. My bill for ER was over $1k. Just for the stay. Like 9 hours.

[Wilsonwas]

Originally Posted by berkeley

Gah. My bill for ER was over $1k. Just for the stay. Like 9 hours.

Eeeerk, I hope my insurance is better than that....yikes. my condolences bro.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You'd do well writing for a right wing blog. But you're not offering anything but rhetoric to a growing number of sick Americans who can't afford the insurance or the care they need.

Essentially, you're full of criticism. But you have no solutions. Feel free to stand on the sidelines throwing tomatoes while more and more of us realize what needs to be done and are willing to push for it. Sad really, when one could stand and make a difference, they fall back on Infowars ideology. Oh well, you guys own that. Right now we more than pay for what is necessary for a basic single payer system. And what do we get for our money? Nothing really. It's time to demand some degree of service from the government we are giving so much money too.

I know people who have no insurance and they are content with that. They've made up their mind to just live as God would have them live and die quietly at home if He so chooses that for them. Sadly, most Americans don't think that way. They can't afford insurance, but when sick or injured, they run to the ER and rack up bills they can't pay. That equals losses passed down to consumers in higher medical costs, and that in turn increases the cost of insurance. We're already paying for everyone, we're just paying for them in the most expensive way possible.

No more free rides. Everyone needs to pay into a system and help bring down the costs for all. The only other alternative would be to handle healthcare like a business. If a person has no money or insurance to finance the cost... turn them away. Like a car lot. We can't continue to provide healthcare as though it is a social service... and not fund it like a social service.

1. Visiting a doctor a few times a year is not typically very expensive.
There's plenty of competition between local doctor's offices. Competition keeps prices relatively low.

2. Vising a hospital any time is very expensive.
There's little competition on hospitals. It's typically 1-2 per area and mergers seem to be happening at an alarming rate. Also, you typically have no choice of when or where you go to the hospital in an emergency situation and the reason you are there is often potentially life threatening so you basically have to pay whatever they want you to pay.

3. Paying for meds when you get sick is not typically very expensive.
There's plenty of competition for antibiotics and cough medicines and fever reducers and other such temporary use medicines. In fact many people get such sicknesses and don't ever go to the doctor.

4. Paying for meds for lifelong diseases get's very expensive.
It's the same situation as the hospital typically. You have to pay or suffer severe complications and possibly death due to not having meds. There's probably only a handful of companies that make some of the specialty meds you need. Basically you pay whatever you need to in these situations.

I personally think hospitals need to be treated more like utility companies. High regulation and must constantly justify their price increases, etc.

I think regular doctor's offices should typically be a bit more free market.

I think long term medications especially those that someone lacking could severly impact their health should be highly regulated especially in terms of price and profit for such companies.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You'd do well writing for a right wing blog. But you're not offering anything but rhetoric to a growing number of sick Americans who can't afford the insurance or the care they need.

Essentially, you're full of criticism. But you have no solutions. Feel free to stand on the sidelines throwing tomatoes while more and more of us realize what needs to be done and are willing to push for it. Sad really, when one could stand and make a difference, they fall back on Infowars ideology. Oh well, you guys own that. Right now we more than pay for what is necessary for a basic single payer system. And what do we get for our money? Nothing really. It's time to demand some degree of service from the government we are giving so much money too.

I know people who have no insurance and they are content with that. They've made up their mind to just live as God would have them live and die quietly at home if He so chooses that for them. Sadly, most Americans don't think that way. They can't afford insurance, but when sick or injured, they run to the ER and rack up bills they can't pay. That equals losses passed down to consumers in higher medical costs, and that in turn increases the cost of insurance. We're already paying for everyone, we're just paying for them in the most expensive way possible.

No more free rides. Everyone needs to pay into a system and help bring down the costs for all. The only other alternative would be to handle healthcare like a business. If a person has no money or insurance to finance the cost... turn them away. Like a car lot. We can't continue to provide healthcare as though it is a social service... and not fund it like a social service.

ROFL! You sure live in a bubble. Almost as if you write democrud talking points on social media for a living.

I'm just glad I actually get out of the house and meet real people in real life. You, obviously, don't. Here's a map for you to contemplate on the tree of woe:

[Esaias]

QWhat is CPUSA's view on healthcare? Do you believe government should provide healthcare for all?
AHi, and thanks for writing in.

We consider health care, including full reproductive and mental health services, a basic human right. We support anything that expands access to health care and oppose anything that restricts it. We support the Affordable Care Act as a first, but insufficient, step toward full national health care, and we support the growing movement for single-payer/Medicare for All. We also look to Cuba's groundbreaking public health system, where all people receive full medical care without any billing or involvement from insurance companies.

http://www.cpusa.org/interact_cpusa/...-care-for-all/

[Esaias]

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by jfrog

1. Visiting a doctor a few times a year is not typically very expensive.
There's plenty of competition between local doctor's offices. Competition keeps prices relatively low.

2. Vising a hospital any time is very expensive.
There's little competition on hospitals. It's typically 1-2 per area and mergers seem to be happening at an alarming rate. Also, you typically have no choice of when or where you go to the hospital in an emergency situation and the reason you are there is often potentially life threatening so you basically have to pay whatever they want you to pay.

3. Paying for meds when you get sick is not typically very expensive.
There's plenty of competition for antibiotics and cough medicines and fever reducers and other such temporary use medicines. In fact many people get such sicknesses and don't ever go to the doctor.

4. Paying for meds for lifelong diseases get's very expensive.
It's the same situation as the hospital typically. You have to pay or suffer severe complications and possibly death due to not having meds. There's probably only a handful of companies that make some of the specialty meds you need. Basically you pay whatever you need to in these situations.

I personally think hospitals need to be treated more like utility companies. High regulation and must constantly justify their price increases, etc.

I think regular doctor's offices should typically be a bit more free market.

I think long term medications especially those that someone lacking could severly impact their health should be highly regulated especially in terms of price and profit for such companies.

Excellent points.

The problem arises when you have 50 million or so uninsured. These people typically don't have insurance and live paycheck to paycheck. As a result, they don't have a family doctor. When they get sick or injured, they go to the ER at a local hospital. I think many reading my post are in this very same position and have done this themselves. Going to the ER is very expensive, but they don't have to pay upfront and so they are billed. Many are "slow pays" and many more just don't pay their medical bills. Now, imagine millions of people doing this. If one understands market forces, it's obvious what this will do to the cost of services in hospitals. To recoup the cost of these "slow pay" and "no pay" people, they write a portion of it off, the rest of the loss is passed down to the consumer in higher healthcare costs. Of course, as the cost of healthcare goes up... so to does the cost of insurance. And so, the biggest drivers of the rising cost of insurance are... the uninsured.

Most conservatives have voiced that being forced to pay for someone else's healthcare is ethically wrong according to their ethos. However, if one really believes that... then why don't they support a system that would force the vast majority of people to pay into the system so that we don't have millions of uninsured who don't pay driving up the cost for the rest of us? At the end of the day, it is the conservatives who are defending a system of paying for those who pay little to nothing towards their own care.

In America healthcare, especially as it relates to hospitals, is ran like a social service. Anyone, be they insured or uninsured, will be treated if they just wonder into the ER. Free market economics cannot sustain such a giveaway. Imagine a car dealership being run like that. Imagine someone just wonders off the street and needs a car. They have no cash in pocket nor financing. So, the dealer gives them a car and bills them. The person drives away and pays a little very month or... they pay nothing at all. What would market forces do to the cost of cars on that lot? To recoup the loss, the dealer would have to raise the prices on every vehicle, passing the loss down to the consumer. Eventually, every car on the lot would become too expensive for the average person to purchase. This is why free market healthcare fails. The only way a truly free market healthcare system could be maintained is if it were run like a business... No money? No financing (insurance)? No services. But that would mean millions of uninsured people would be being turned away at the doors of the ER to suffer in the shadows of the hospitals. It would also be a public health concern, because many with diseases and sickness wouldn't be being treated. And then news stories would abound about heart attack patients dying on the sidewalks outside of hospitals. And when those realities are considered, most reject them. Therefore, healthcare must be funded like a social service. Everyone pays for the availability of the system that serves all. Hence... single payer. No free rides unless you're indigent, a child, disabled, or elderly.

You can't run a social service available to all (with millions who pay nothing) and stabilize prices using free market principles. This is why nearly every first world nation on earth has some form of mandate to purchase private insurance (ex. Switzerland & Germany) or a socialized health insurance/care system (ex. Canada, France, England) with everyone paying through taxation.

If one truly believes in no free rides... the only answer is a mandate or single payer. And with the cost of private insurance today, a mandate will crush a lot of people, as Obamacare. Single payer is the one system that cuts the inflated costs of the private insurance industry and allows the government to negotiate the cost of nearly everything across the board to lower the overall cost per citizen.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

ROFL! You sure live in a bubble. Almost as if you write democrud talking points on social media for a living.

I'm just glad I actually get out of the house and meet real people in real life. You, obviously, don't. Here's a map for you to contemplate on the tree of woe:

Brother Esaias, with all do respects, you say I don't get out much, and then post to me a link to an internet map, while using Libaughesque pejoratives, and creating a false left vs. right dichotomy, commonly brought into the fray by the divisive likes of radio talk show hosts and right wing bloggers.

Let me ask you...

Do you have any loved ones who have died from a treatable condition because they didn't have insurance and couldn't see a specialist in time? Or because they couldn't afford an expensive procedure, or because they couldn't afford some expensive prescription medication? On July 7th of 2007 my mother died from a condition that, had she been able to see a specialist, she could have been treated for. She has a name. Her name was, Joyce. I called her, "mom", until the day she died.

So, I really don't have to travel very far from home to tell you about the reality of what I'm talking about. I lived it. Have you ever scrambled, making phone calls, trying to raise money to help someone you love before they die? I have. And, I don't have to post any internet maps, links, or statistics to tell you that the problems with our system are tragic. Nor do I have to use colorful partisan pejoratives to try to demonize you. In 2007, my mother was one of the estimated 45,000 people who died from treatable conditions... simply because she didn't have insurance.

Here she is with me on her lap.

I love you mom.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Excellent points.

The problem arises when you have 50 million or so uninsured. These people typically don't have insurance and live paycheck to paycheck. As a result, they don't have a family doctor. When they get sick or injured, they go to the ER at a local hospital. I think many reading my post are in this very same position and have done this themselves. Going to the ER is very expensive, but they don't have to pay upfront and so they are billed. Many are "slow pays" and many more just don't pay their medical bills. Now, imagine millions of people doing this. If one understands market forces, it's obvious what this will do to the cost of services in hospitals. To recoup the cost of these "slow pay" and "no pay" people, they write a portion of it off, the rest of the loss is passed down to the consumer in higher healthcare costs. Of course, as the cost of healthcare goes up... so to does the cost of insurance. And so, the biggest drivers of the rising cost of insurance are... the uninsured.

Most conservatives have voiced that being forced to pay for someone else's healthcare is ethically wrong according to their ethos. However, if one really believes that... then why don't they support a system that would force the vast majority of people to pay into the system so that we don't have millions of uninsured who don't pay driving up the cost for the rest of us? At the end of the day, it is the conservatives who are defending a system of paying for those who pay little to nothing towards their own care.

In America healthcare, especially as it relates to hospitals, is ran like a social service. Anyone, be they insured or uninsured, will be treated if they just wonder into the ER. Free market economics cannot sustain such a giveaway. Imagine a car dealership being run like that. Imagine someone just wonders off the street and needs a car. They have no cash in pocket nor financing. So, the dealer gives them a car and bills them. The person drives away and pays a little very month or... they pay nothing at all. What would market forces do to the cost of cars on that lot? To recoup the loss, the dealer would have to raise the prices on every vehicle, passing the loss down to the consumer. Eventually, every car on the lot would become too expensive for the average person to purchase. This is why free market healthcare fails. The only way a truly free market healthcare system could be maintained is if it were run like a business... No money? No financing (insurance)? No services. But that would mean millions of uninsured people would be being turned away at the doors of the ER to suffer in the shadows of the hospitals. It would also be a public health concern, because many with diseases and sickness wouldn't be being treated. And then news stories would abound about heart attack patients dying on the sidewalks outside of hospitals. And when those realities are considered, most reject them. Therefore, healthcare must be funded like a social service. Everyone pays for the availability of the system that serves all. Hence... single payer. No free rides unless you're indigent, a child, disabled, or elderly.

You can't run a social service available to all (with millions who pay nothing) and stabilize prices using free market principles. This is why nearly every first world nation on earth has some form of mandate to purchase private insurance (ex. Switzerland & Germany) or a socialized health insurance/care system (ex. Canada, France, England) with everyone paying through taxation.

If one truly believes in no free rides... the only answer is a mandate or single payer. And with the cost of private insurance today, a mandate will crush a lot of people, as Obamacare. Single payer is the one system that cuts the inflated costs of the private insurance industry and allows the government to negotiate the cost of nearly everything across the board to lower the overall cost per citizen.

I agree with the bolded part, not sure of the solution.

As costs escalate the system continues to collapse as more and more people can not pay.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I agree with the bolded part, not sure of the solution.

As costs escalate the system continues to collapse as more and more people can not pay.

Bingo. As the uninsured drive costs higher, more people can't afford insurance, causing even more uninsured people to drive the costs even higher.

The only answer to a system run like a social service is... to fund it like a social service (mandates and/or taxation). Or... turn away the sick who can't pay (free market principle). Either of these options would stabilize the system. But only one is morally acceptable seeing that we're talking about lives here and not commodities.

Oh... and then consider that nearly 30% of current healthcare costs are administrative fees from various insurance and service providers. Not only are we paying for the uninsured with higher insurance rates... but we're paying for them in the most expensive way possible. A single payer system would eliminate that right off the top.