|
View Poll Results: Will a man go to hell for wearing a dress
|
|
Yes! Burn baby burn, burn
|
   
|
10 |
50.00% |
|
Yes, but only to a hell reserved for cross dressers
|
  
|
0 |
0% |
|
Maybe, Maybe not
|
  
|
5 |
25.00% |
|
It depends on whether he knows it is a dress.
|
  
|
1 |
5.00% |
|
Not likely, as our society evolves, it is more accepted these daze.
|
  
|
0 |
0% |
|
No, but he will go to a heaven reserved for cross dressers
|
  
|
0 |
0% |
|
Absolutely not, Jesus wore a dress too you know.
|
|
4 |
20.00% |
 |
|
06-15-2007, 05:46 PM
|
|
Shaking the dust off my shoes.
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nunya bidness
Posts: 9,004
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Take the scripture out of context? That's your perception just as a Trinitarian sees the Trinity and a Dispensationalists sees a Pre-Tribulational Rapture, you see what you see because that's where you want to be.
It's like wanting a Christmas Tree, you and I know that there is no Bible for it, but yet you will have people fight you tooth and nail over it. The same goes for wedding rings; people will fight like wolves over one piece of jewelry when there is no scripture for it. Why? Because it's about agenda, it's about what people want whether it's in the Bible or not. It's the preacher’s job to preach to the people that they should get a prayer life and grow up and if that's accomplished then it will be Jesus who will take care of the rest.
The exact same thing could be said about the dress code crowd. They see what they see because that's what they want to see.
Wait a minute Bro, if someone is in a church they have a duty to study it out for themselves. No body is told anything that they have to do. When I was in the world no Apostolic Pentecostal ever came to my door in the Bronx New York and told me that I couldn't dress a certain way. It's up to the people to study for themselves. Usually people blow off standards because they never believed in them from the start. It was a costume to them just like clown outfit is to Bozo. My wife studied out her convictions on holiness in the original languages and came to her conclusions through the word and prayer. The same goes for myself and everything that I believe. My daughters are compelled to study and as they grow we will TEACH, not yell, not scream or by any beatings. I want them to love Jesus like I love Jesus and not hate Him because they think He is the cause of religious misery.
My Puerto Rican foot. I've been there, heard the preaching, believed the lies, and found out different. You have come entirely too late to try to convince me people aren't told what to do over pulpits. If that is what you believe then you need to get your head out of the sand, Brother.
What if GOD does want that of every person? What if a preacher preached and the Holy Ghost moved in all his revivals and every revival people were baptized in Jesus name and received the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues and the people all said that God told them to change the way they looked?
Would you still be cool with that?
What if? What if you're wrong? Also, I seriously doubt entire revivals are caused by dress code preaching.
Brother Rico I have changed my beliefs on issues when I was given a good argument no matter how it was presented I have no problem when I see it in the word or when I hear a good argument against or for it.
At least you are willing to admit that your beliefs have changed. If they've been changed before then that would mean they could be changed again. This is a journey, and we learn as we go. What we think is God's way today could change on down the road a bit.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com |
Answers are in blue.
|
06-15-2007, 05:48 PM
|
 |
Unvaxxed Pureblood too
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,372
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatist
Man determines culture. If the Bible determined culture, it would have to be very specific about each item we wear and it is not.
FYI- My father-in-law lives in India and wears a skirt at times. He is not a transvestite in his culture.
|
In India they also walk around naked so ask your father-in-law about that one.
The Apostles commanded the Gentiles coming into the church to get rid of their culture.
Act 15:20
"But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."
Different cultures dress the way they dress because of pagan practices and throw over from their religion. India is mostly tribal people, and their practice pagan. If they come into Christianity they are to discard those pagan practices.
What about other tribal cultures should they be allowed to keep their nudity, female circumcision, body piercing, body branding, and other totally pagan practices.
This could open a whole can of worms.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
|
06-15-2007, 05:50 PM
|
|
Saved & Shaved
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SOUTH ZION
Posts: 10,795
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
In India they also walk around naked so ask your father-in-law about that one.
The Apostles commanded the Gentiles coming into the church to get rid of their culture.
Act 15:20
"But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."
Different cultures dress the way they dress because of pagan practices and throw over from their religion. India is mostly tribal people, and their practice pagan. If they come into Christianity they are to discard those pagan practices.
What about other tribal cultures should they be allowed to keep their nudity, female circumcision, body piercing, body branding, and other totally pagan practices.
This could open a whole can of worms.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com |
Almost thou persuadest me 
|
06-15-2007, 06:47 PM
|
|
Unvaxxed Pureblood too
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,372
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
The exact same thing could be said about the dress code crowd. They see what they see because that's what they want to see.
|
I don't think you're understanding what I was trying to say. Let me put it like this, there are scriptures speaking of attire and therefore those who are against standards have to disprove what is written. They then are always harping on clothes and missing why the holiness standards were there in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
My Puerto Rican foot. I've been there, heard the preaching, believed the lies, and found out different.
|
You see Brother Rico, I heard the same things but instead of coping an attitude I went and studied everything out, and did not go to try to protect a doctrine I wanted to see if it was truth. I found that what those old Brothers taught was legitimate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
You have come entirely too late to try to convince me people aren't told what to do over pulpits.
|
Sorry but people are people and they won't do anything they don't want to do. Do you think that you have some kind of corner on the market and that everyone else is just duped? Let me see, so you're saying that everyone who believes in Holiness Standards are bunch of stupid dopes who are pounded into submission to do things they know are wrong? Is that what you're saying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
If that is what you believe then you need to get your head out of the sand, Brother.
|
Brother Rico, you are trying to say that everyone who is in a holiness Pentecostal church are doing something against their will and are under bondage of misery? Talk about having your head in the sand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
What if? What if you're wrong? Also, I seriously doubt entire revivals are caused by dress code preaching.
|
I never said the preacher was preaching dress codes he preached One God and Jesus name baptism and the Holy Ghost with tongues. Brother Rico what if you're wrong what if you missed it. What if you have such an attitude against this subject that you couldn't believe even if Jesus preached it and David played it on his harp to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
At least you are willing to admit that your beliefs have changed.
|
Concerning Eschatology yes, but as far as concerning holiness standards I have come to learn more as time goes on. I see it more clearly as the years go on. I have found that the old Brothers and Sisters who held to their convictions did so because they not only had a spiritual conviction but a Bible conviction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
If they've been changed before then that would mean they could be changed again.
|
Yes, indeed but not because I had been offended or had a hard time with a religious movement. I want to see the facts and take time to look it over and research it out. When it comes to troubleshooting a machine you go through a process of elimination and then when you find the problem you deal with it. The same goes with doctrines you look into all the points and eliminate the false and hold to the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
This is a journey, and we learn as we go.
|
Absolutely correct, just don't go backwards in that journey and end up worse than when you started.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
What we think is God's way today could change on down the road a bit.
|
Entirely true, but we don't go all the way down this road (while we were studying and praying) and end up in Sciencetology.
Lord bless you Brother Rico
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
|
06-15-2007, 07:05 PM
|
|
Shaking the dust off my shoes.
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nunya bidness
Posts: 9,004
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
I don't think you're understanding what I was trying to say. Let me put it like this, there are scriptures speaking of attire and therefore those who are against standards have to disprove what is written. They then are always harping on clothes and missing why the holiness standards were there in the first place.
None of which says a woman has to wear a dress and men have to wear pants. This is has been covered to death, Brother.
You see Brother Rico, I heard the same things but instead of coping an attitude I went and studied everything out, and did not go to try to protect a doctrine I wanted to see if it was truth. I found that what those old Brothers taught was legitimate.
I've got some news for you. I bought the lies, hook, line, and sinker for almost 10 years. Don't assume that just because I am against these lies being preached from pulpits all across America that it means I have a bad attitude. I've studied these issues out for myself. It's funny how people in your camp always resort to saying those opposed just have a bad attitude or are in rebellion. It's become par for the course.
Sorry but people are people and they won't do anything they don't want to do. Do you think that you have some kind of corner on the market and that everyone else is just duped? Let me see, so you're saying that everyone who believes in Holiness Standards are bunch of stupid dopes who are pounded into submission to do things they know are wrong? Is that what you're saying?
When did I say that? Apparently, you either do not read everything I say or just choose to read what you want to read.
Brother Rico, you are trying to say that everyone who is in a holiness Pentecostal church are doing something against their will and are under bondage of misery? Talk about having your head in the sand.
Hogwash! I have never said such a thing so stop making false accusations against me.
I never said the preacher was preaching dress codes he preached One God and Jesus name baptism and the Holy Ghost with tongues. Brother Rico what if you're wrong what if you missed it. What if you have such an attitude against this subject that you couldn't believe even if Jesus preached it and David played it on his harp to you.
"What if" is the best you can come up with? Anyone can use a what if argument. Since Jesus didn't preach this and David never played it on his harp then I have nothing to worry about. See, I am just dumb enough to believe that God is more than capable of showing me any error in my thinking. He's done it before and can do it again. And can you believe He's actually done this without having to use a redfaced preacher telling me how hot hell is going to be? What a concept. God actually leading His people and showing them which way to go. Amazing!
Concerning Eschatology yes, but as far as concerning holiness standards I have come to learn more as time goes on. I see it more clearly as the years go on. I have found that the old Brothers and Sisters who held to their convictions did so because they not only had a spiritual conviction but a Bible conviction.
Good for you. I have neither a spiritual nor a biblical conviction that says it's ok for the pastor to tell me or my wife and daughters how to dress. I have searched high and low through the scriptures, looking for it, but it just isn't there because it doesn't exist. Feel free to twist whatever scripture you want to make it say what you want it to say. Don't let me stop you.
Yes, indeed but not because I had been offended or had a hard time with a religious movement. I want to see the facts and take time to look it over and research it out. When it comes to troubleshooting a machine you go through a process of elimination and then when you find the problem you deal with it. The same goes with doctrines you look into all the points and eliminate the false and hold to the truth.
Exactly. That is why I can no longer go along with clothesline preaching.
Absolutely correct, just don't go backwards in that journey and end up worse than when you started.
Again, why the assumption that I am headed the wrong way?
Entirely true, but we don't go all the way down this road (while we were studying and praying) and end up in Sciencetology.
What does Sciencetology have to do with anything?
Lord bless you Brother Rico
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com |
Answers are in blue
|
06-15-2007, 07:08 PM
|
|
Shaking the dust off my shoes.
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nunya bidness
Posts: 9,004
|
|
Brother, it's been fun but Stand Off is on and I don't want to miss it. I will catcha later. 
|
06-15-2007, 07:56 PM
|
 |
Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
|
|
|
Too many choices in this poll - but none that simply say "NO!" That is how I would vote.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
|
06-15-2007, 08:35 PM
|
|
Unvaxxed Pureblood too
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,372
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
None of which says a woman has to wear a dress and men have to wear pants. This is has been covered to death, Brother.
|
Brother the scripture is sure saying that a man cannot wear that which a woman wears and a woman cannot wear what a man wears. In the Greek it is very clear when placed with what is written in Timothy. I have yet to see anyone come up with anything refuting it, but that doesn't matter because when people have their mind made up not to go forward they won't. So much for making people do something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
I've got some news for you. I bought the lies, hook, line, and sinker for almost 10 years. Don't assume that just because I am against these lies being preached from pulpits all across America that it means I have a bad attitude. I've studied these issues out for myself. It's funny how people in your camp always resort to saying those opposed just have a bad attitude or are in rebellion. It's become par for the course.
|
Brother Rico so you studied this out and found out that God really doesn't care if people are dressed unisex? Is that what you found in your research?
Why do I think (just me personally, not all of America's Apostolics just me) that you have an attitude because you are so flipped over the subject.
It's your use of adjetives Brother Rico, like the use of the word "LIES".
What about Leviticus 18, can you point out to me how many things within that chapter are no longer for the Apostolic Church?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
When did I say that? Apparently, you either do not read everything I say or just choose to read what you want to read.
|
Then Brother Rico what are you trying to say then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
My Puerto Rican foot. I've been there, heard the preaching, believed the lies, and found out different. You have come entirely too late to try to convince me people aren't told what to do over pulpits. If that is what you believe then you need to get your head out of the sand, Brother.
|
Brother Rico what you're saying above is that we are being lied to but you've been set free and we still have our heads in the sand. Brother Rico so what do you have that we should look into? You think we should all look like we been shot out of a canon? So when Jesus said the Pharisees looked beautiful what was He talking about? Their legs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
Hogwash! I have never said such a thing so stop making false accusations against me.
|
Did you say that we are being lied to? So if we are being lied to then you're saying that we are deceived and you're enlightened. I hope your ministry does real well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
"What if" is the best you can come up with? Anyone can use a what if argument. Since Jesus didn't preach this and David never played it on his harp then I have nothing to worry about.
|
David did play it on his harp.
Psa 1:1-6
"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the LAW of the LORD; and in his LAW doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
The word for LAW is TORAH and Deuteronomy 22:5 is part of the TORAH.
Jesus was the LOGOS made flesh (not divine but human) and that LOGOS is the rational discourse of God and that discourse is all of the TORAH.
Paul an the rest of the apostles didn't use New Testment books they used a TORAH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
See, I am just dumb enough to believe that God is more than capable of showing me any error in my thinking.
|
Brother Rico wow that's pretty good so I guess we don't have to worry about you Bro, you must be bringing some powerful revelation forward and all us conservatives are just sitting around trying to think of what we can preach against. Are the people lining up at your door yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
He's done it before and can do it again. And can you believe He's actually done this without having to use a redfaced preacher telling me how hot hell is going to be? What a concept. God actually leading His people and showing them which way to go. Amazing!
|
Hold on, wait a minute, are you saying that GOD presents information without a preacher? Let me put it this way, can a man sit by himself and have no one around and come to revelation without ministry? Is that what you're saying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
Good for you. I have neither a spiritual nor a biblical conviction that says it's ok for the pastor to tell me or my wife and daughters how to dress. I have searched high and low through the scriptures, looking for it, but it just isn't there because it doesn't exist.
|
It doesn't exist for you because you don't want it. You refuse because you have decided that all us in Holiness Pentecostal churches are spiritual Neanderthals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
Feel free to twist whatever scripture you want to make it say what you want it to say. Don't let me stop you.
|
What's to twist Brother Rico, the word is the word, pretty hard to twist one verse of Deuteronomy 22:5 and even harder to get 1st Timothy 2:9 wrong.
Hey, Brother Rico Mormons believe that we all come from the planet Kolob so I guess people will believe whatever they very well please.
So let me get this straight it's wrong for people to preach standards but it's not wrong for you to say that these people are liars who believe in standards?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
Exactly. That is why I can no longer go along with clothesline preaching.
|
Brother Rico, when someone is done with something they're done. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
Again, why the assumption that I am headed the wrong way?
|
But it's all right to say that the Holiness Pentecostals are in the Dark Ages just as long as no one putting you there. Way to go Bro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
What does Sciencetology have to do with anything?
|
You said what we think is God's way today may change in the future, I would tend to agree, but I added just as long as you don't end up going so far down the road that you end up in some flipped out religion.
Brother Rico it's like building a chopper you start out with good intentions but as you go along you might end up with something that you can't even ride.
Lord bless you my Brother.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
|
06-15-2007, 08:37 PM
|
|
Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
|
|
|
Sorry Ben, that post was too long for me to glean.... Do you oppose kilts for Scottish?
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
|
06-15-2007, 08:41 PM
|
|
Unvaxxed Pureblood too
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,372
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Sorry Ben, that post was too long for me to glean.... Do you oppose kilts for Scottish?
|
Wait a minute Brother Hoover, you just started a thread saying that this forum was dead and then you complain about my post.
Brother Hoover I will answer you when you read my post in its entirety.
Thank you very much.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
| |
|
Linear Mode
