OK, not quite true: I have a vague idea of the gist of your post. You are claiming that I don't really believe what I say I believe, namely that I do not know whether God exists. It's a weird claim, but OK, go ahead and think that. And I have a hunch I know why you (say you) think that: it's because you have to believe that everyone, deep inside, believes in God; that God made us that way, that we see God in the stars, that the Bible is true (and we have no excuse, as Paul said), that there is no possible way the universe could have come into existence except by God's conscious work (and that God is exactly the same God the Bible talks about, of course), etc.
Close?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
OK, not quite true: I have a vague idea of the gist of your post. You are claiming that I don't really believe what I say I believe, namely that I do not know whether God exists. It's a weird claim, but OK, go ahead and think that. And I have a hunch I know why you (say you) think that: it's because you have to believe that everyone, deep inside, believes in God; that God made us that way, that we see God in the stars, that the Bible is true (and we have no excuse, as Paul said), that there is no possible way the universe could have come into existence except by God's conscious work (and that God is exactly the same God the Bible talks about, of course), etc.
Close?
Um, I wouldn't presuppose an answer for you here, so much as suggest that no answer becomes personally unsatisfactory, and a common method of illumination in one direction is pursuing its opposite.
While, yes, I do agree with your post, I believe one can find God absent any preconceptions, and don't mean to say that you "don't really believe what you say you believe," rather that what you believe is often the stance of someone who, quite fairly, has simply not discovered enough "evidence" to decide, and that this ultimately becomes unsatisfying; which seems counter-intuitive, actually--you would think a lack of certainty here would feel normal, hmm...
Um, I wouldn't presuppose an answer for you here, so much as suggest that no answer becomes personally unsatisfactory, and a common method of illumination in one direction is pursuing its opposite.
While, yes, I do agree with your post, I believe one can find God absent any preconceptions, and don't mean to say that you "don't really believe what you say you believe," rather that what you believe is often the stance of someone who, quite fairly, has simply not discovered enough "evidence" to decide, and that this ultimately becomes unsatisfying; which seems counter-intuitive, actually--you would think a lack of certainty here would feel normal, hmm...
Thanks, I think I understand your views better, now.
You mention lack of certainty, and that is, in fact, one of my most important criticisms of some Christians: their apparent lack of uncertainty! Not all. Some. They have a certainty of some of their beliefs that defies explanation -- unless you accept that they think they must have certainty, or they may be punished severely. It's their view of what faith is, and combine that with the scripture saying it's impossible to please God without faith, and displeasing God has terrible consequences, well, you get the idea.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Thanks, I think I understand your views better, now.
You mention lack of certainty, and that is, in fact, one of my most important criticisms of some Christians: their apparent lack of uncertainty! Not all. Some. They have a certainty of some of their beliefs that defies explanation -- unless you accept that they think they must have certainty, or they may be punished severely. It's their view of what faith is, and combine that with the scripture saying it's impossible to please God without faith, and displeasing God has terrible consequences, well, you get the idea.
Yeah, I was trapped in this for a while; "Must be sure of oneself..." It is a poor, too literal translation which leads to perfectionism, and the inability to recognize/admit mistakes. I think we're supposed to be "sure" of God, not that our walk is "perfect," as strange as that may sound at first read. Be open to a little messy vitality; don't be so deathly scared of messing up. I use this with clenched kids, I mess up on purpose; it's great therapy, lol.
You might even say certainty there is lack of faith, in a sense, or an immature faith, attempting to grab hold of. A normal stage, yes? You are the answer; you have to have faith that your answer of life, more abundantly to this will simply...outgrow it.
I also find the common view of "immortality" to be pretty naive.
Last edited by bbyrd009; 01-14-2012 at 01:28 PM.
Reason: add
You are claiming that I don't really believe what I say I believe, namely that I do not know whether God exists. It's a weird claim, but OK, go ahead and think that. And I have a hunch I know why you (say you) think that: it's because you have to believe that everyone, deep inside, believes in God; that God made us that way, that we see God in the stars, that the Bible is true (and we have no excuse, as Paul said), that there is no possible way the universe could have come into existence except by God's conscious work (and that God is exactly the same God the Bible talks about, of course), etc.
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