Christian hostages murdered by Somali Pirates - Page 7

Truthseeker · #61 02-22-2011, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

We covered your idolatry claims in another thread. The one when you said Mother Teresa was headed to hell. Remember?

It's unfounded. N4S pointed out very REAL cases of idolatry instead of the one's where you oppose images being made.

It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

The bottom line is are they worshipping another God, represented or thought to literally be that object? N4S pointed to more practical ways idolatry is rampant today.

So your raining on the thread parade of throwing these guys in hell can, well, go to h... nevermind.

If you don't think bowing to statues/candles praying to mary or saints is not idolatry then I don't what to say. Of course, many things can become idols but praying to anything but God is idolatry.

BTW I wasnt refering I was refering to catholics not these people.

Jermyn Davidson · #62 02-22-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

If you don't think bowing to statues/candles praying to mary or saints is not idolatry then I don't what to say. Of course, many things can become idols but praying to anything but God is idolatry.

BTW I wasnt refering I was refering to catholics not these people.

Weren't the victims catholic?

jfrog · #63 02-22-2011, 07:57 PM

I wonder how the story of the Good Samaritan would be different if a robber was still around beating the man when the priest the levite and the samaritan came by.

I bet the priest and levite would have ran. I bet the samaritan would have tried to fight off the lone thief. I think Jesus would have us fight for the oppressed but maybe not for our own oppression

pelathais · #64 02-22-2011, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

It is absolutely IMPERATIVE for the American government to respond.

We should not leave this incident as an example that emboldens those who do wish to do Americans harm.

America really needs to take the lead on this-- with or without the help of the international community.

The pirates didn't really "target" Americans. They targeted easy prey. In this case, the victims just happened to be Americans.

The President could "send a message" in some way that might discourage future pirates from attacking or keeping Americans once they have ascertained that their victims are indeed American. But there is no guarantee that any action would produce such an effect.

I like my "Port Authority" idea. Fast, friendly clearance of vessels going through the inspection. A merciless hail of 57 mm shells for those who fail to comply.

pelathais · #65 02-22-2011, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

lol

Pel, it has happened before that Americans have been victimized by these pirates. Now they are killing Americans.

The U.S. Marines took on the Barbary Pirates in history.

We can take these guys out too and bring law and order to that region.

The minute Americans were killed, it should have become our mandate.

If a Conservative, Chrsitan Republican was President right now, I DOUBT things would have gone this far and if they did, there would be NO DOUBT about our response to their actions.

The Marine's action on the Barbary Coast did free many Americans (and Europeans) who had been captured and sold into slavery. In that, it was a success. In the long run, however, it was Presidents Adams and Jefferson buying off the pirate Beys that was most effective in protecting American shipping at that time.

Socialite · #66 02-22-2011, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

I wonder how the story of the Good Samaritan would be different if a robber was still around beating the man when the priest the levite and the samaritan came by.

I bet the priest and levite would have ran. I bet the samaritan would have tried to fight off the lone thief. I think Jesus would have us fight for the oppressed but maybe not for our own oppression

Defending, not fighting... of course we are a projecting into a hypothetical story that never happened. Jesus' message was exactly the opposite. He asks us to trust that He's in control.

I'm certainly not opposed to taking action, but what the action looks like, and the attitude of which Christians support that action to me are much more critical.

Protecting the defenseless, defending the oppressed and marginalized is completely within the scope of Jesus' message. How that is accomplished, and what perspective that is accomplished are different.

MLK Jr. didn't "do nothing" in his action toward civil rights...

pelathais · #67 02-22-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Weren't the victims catholic?

The only religious reference that I've seen was to the sailboat's captain being a graduate of, and an instructor at Fuller Seminary in California. That, and the thing about Bible give aways.

Fuller is a solidly "evangelical" school.

jfrog · #68 02-22-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

Defending, not fighting... of course we are a projecting into a hypothetical story that never happened. Jesus' message was exactly the opposite. He asks us to trust that He's in control.

I'm certainly not opposed to taking action, but what the action looks like, and the attitude of which Christians support that action to me are much more critical.

Protecting the defenseless, defending the oppressed and marginalized is completely within the scope of Jesus' message. How that is accomplished, and what perspective that is accomplished are different.

MLK Jr. didn't "do nothing" in his action toward civil rights...

Jesus didn't want us to think he was in control like the workless Christians of James 2 seemed to think. I bet those some Christians were even praying that their brothers needs were met... but they were still called out.

MLK is a hero and amazing because he was non violence... however there were other civil rights heroes who did use violence to defend themselves. Was he somehow a better Christian than them?

Jermyn Davidson · #69 02-22-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

The pirates didn't really "target" Americans. They targeted easy prey. In this case, the victims just happened to be Americans.

The President could "send a message" in some way that might discourage future pirates from attacking or keeping Americans once they have ascertained that their victims are indeed American. But there is no guarantee that any action would produce such an effect.

I like my "Port Authority" idea. Fast, friendly clearance of vessels going through the inspection. A merciless hail of 57 mm shells for those who fail to comply.

In keeping with the subject of this thread, I stand behind my idea that the Christian response could involve violence and killing as we seek to address the situation that allowed this to happen in the first place.

You want to use the UN, I'd rather not.

However we both want something done.

Being Christian does not prohibit us from actively responding to these murders.

Truthseeker · #70 02-22-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Weren't the victims catholic?

Not sure, some were implying they were, but I was addressing the point some here think catholics are christians not the victoms on the boat.

It's a shame USA hasn't dealt with the pirtes. I say Navy seals should be on civilian boats posed as regular boaters. A few times of that might help.