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  #61  
Old 02-24-2011, 08:05 AM
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Re: The "Cracky" and "Wacky" Universalism

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Originally Posted by Socialite View Post
Love Tim Keller's words here:

Quote:
The doctrine of hell is crucial—without it we can’t understand our complete dependence on God, the character and danger of even the smallest sins, and the true scope of the costly love of Jesus. Nevertheless, it is possible to stress the doctrine of hell in unwise ways. Many, for fear of doctrinal compromise, want to put all the emphasis on God’s active judgment, and none on the self-chosen character of hell. Ironically, as we have seen, this unBiblical imbalance often makes it less of a deterrent to non-believers rather than more of one. And some can preach hell in such a way that people reform their lives only out of a self-interested fear of avoiding consequences, not out of love and loyalty to the one who embraced and experienced hell in our place. The distinction between those two motives is all-important. The first creates a moralist, the second a born-again believer.

I will admit, however, that Keller's exegesis here leaves you wanting, but his homily is hearty

Anyone read NT Wright's Surprised by Hope?
That's sad.
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  #62  
Old 02-24-2011, 08:31 AM
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Re: The "Cracky" and "Wacky" Universalism

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That's sad.
Our fragile helplessness without God? I think so too... thank God we have a Hope in Him.

And thank God we have a God who made us in Him image, not us making Him in ours.
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  #63  
Old 02-24-2011, 08:38 AM
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Re: The "Cracky" and "Wacky" Universalism

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Originally Posted by Socialite View Post
Our fragile helplessness without God? I think so too... thank God we have a Hope in Him.

And thank God we have a God who made us in Him image, not us making Him in ours.
Agree, on all counts.

And in spite of the fall, God is in the process of restoring us to that image. The current context is for our education, so that we will be able to truly understand His holiness and majesty. All steel is tempered for strength, gold is refined for purity, wheat is thrashed for the kernal. I believe God wants true partners in the completion of the cosmos. Our preprogrammed views of God are much too small.
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  #64  
Old 02-24-2011, 08:46 AM
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Re: The "Cracky" and "Wacky" Universalism

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Originally Posted by crakjak View Post
Agree, on all counts.

And in spite of the fall, God is in the process of restoring us to that image. The current context is for our education, so that we will be able to truly understand His holiness and majesty. All steel is tempered for strength, gold is refined for purity, wheat is thrashed for the kernal. I believe God wants true partners in the completion of the cosmos. Our preprogrammed views of God are much too small.
And our post-modern sensitivities about demanding who God must be are too small too

Eternal life, eternal death. Repent or perish.... why halt between the two opinions
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  #65  
Old 02-24-2011, 09:11 AM
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Re: The "Cracky" and "Wacky" Universalism

In the late 1800's, Thomas J. Sawyer composed a tract that listed the general doctrines, with Biblical references, of the variety of "Christian Universalism" agreed upon by many which presented "Christian Universalism" as a complete system of faith. Those doctrines are shown below:

We believe the authenticity, genuineness, and inspiration, of the Holy Scriptures; that both the Old and New Testaments contain the revealed will of God and that the Bible is the only and sufficient rule of faith and practice.
1. The Bible
2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20-21

We believe the existence of the one living and true God, the Creator, Preserver, and Governor of all worlds, beings, and things. We believe that God is self-existent, independent and eternal; omniscient and omnipresent; infinite in wisdom, goodness and power; in justice, mercy and truth. With Saint Paul we say, "To us there is but one God, even the Father." We believe God to be the universal Father of mankind; the Father of Spirits, our Father in heaven, who loves the whole human family, without exception, even while they are yet sinners, who is kind to the unthankful and to the evil, and who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. In one word, we believe that God is Love.
2. God
Matt. 6:9; Luke 6:35; Rom. 5:8; 1 Cor. 8:6; 1 Tim. 2:4; Heb. 12:9; 1 John 4:8

We believe that to manifest his love for the human race, God sent his Son Jesus Christ into the world, to reveal more perfectly the divine character and purposes, and finally, through death and resurrection, to bring life and immortality to light. We believe that Christ is the brightness of the Father's glory and the express image of his person. We believe that he is appointed by the Father, heir of all things, and is Lord of all, and the he must reign, till he has subdued all things to himself, when he himself will deliver up the kingdom to the Father that God may be all in all. Thus he will save his people from their sins, and be what inspiration proclaims him to be, the Savior of the world. To this end we believe he gave himself a ransom for all, and tasted death for every man, for God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.
3. Jesus Christ
Matt. 1:21; Acts 10:36; 1 Cor. 15:25, 28; 2 Cor. 5:19; 1 Tim. 2:6; Heb. 1:2-3; Heb. 2:9; 1 John 4:14

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the spirit of God, the spirit of truth, the Comfortor, the guide, who convicts the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment, and whose fruits in the believing soul are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
4. Holy Spirit
John 14:16-17; John 16:7-13; Gal. 5:22-23

We believe in the importance of indespensable necessity of repentance, that is, godly sorrow for sin, and a true reformation of heart and life.
5. Repentence
Acts 3:19; Heb. 11:6

We believe in the new birth, or a change of heart, effected in the soul by a cordial belief of the gospel truth, accompanied by the sanctifying influences of the Holy Spirit.
6. New Birth
John 3:3; 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal 5:22-23

We believe in the importance of good works, not to purchase salvation, or gain the love of God -- for salvation is of grace alone, and God loves even his enemies -- but as the natural fruits of the gospel cordially received, the evidences of indwelling grace, and because they are good and profitable to men.
7. Good Works
Titus 3:8; 1 John 4:19; 5:1:-2

We believe in a just and equitable, and at the same time, a parental administration of the divine government; in which God renders to every man according to his works, so that he that does wrong shall receive for the wrong which he has done, and there is no respect of persons. Beyond this state of rewards and punishments, we believe a state of immortal felicity will be conferred upon the whole human family, as a free gift, by the infinite grace of the Father, through Christ Jesus.
8. Judgment
Ps. 62:12; Rom. 5:12-21; Eph. 2:4-9; Col. 3:25

We believe in the universal resurrection of the dead; for as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
9. Resurrection
1 Cor. 15:22

We believe in a life and immortality for the human race beyond the grave, where the mortal shall put on immortality, and where man can die no more, but shall be as the angels, and be children of God.
10. Everlasting Life
Luke 20:36; 1 Cor. 15:23

We believe that, in the fulness of time, God will bring together all things in Christ, when, in the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow, of things in heaven and in earth, and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father; when, as by one man's disobedience, many are made sinners, so, by the obedience of one, shall the same many be made righteous; in one word, when Christ shall have taken away the sin of the world, accomplished the great mission on which he came, done the will of God, seen the fruits of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied, and GOD BE ALL IN ALL.
11. The Consummation
Isa. 53:11; Rom. 5:19; 1 Cor. 15:28; Eph. 1:9-10; Phil. 2:10-11


For a general understanding of UR, these statments of belief, cover Universal Reconciliation fairly well. All OP's should be able to embrace the definition of God presented here? In items one thru four.
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  #66  
Old 02-24-2011, 02:42 PM
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Re: The "Cracky" and "Wacky" Universalism

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I'll refute the accusation that in believing UR, that we "want a God like us".

Question: How does man respond to offense???? He wants to destroy, hence the war and conflict in the earth. Just like the ED doctrine of god!

How does God respond? He comes and pays our debt, suffers and dies for us in the form of a man. He turns the other cheek, and absorbs the hit, forgives when are were yet sinners. This is the true God, and fits perfectly with the UR doctrine.

Final Question: WHO? Makes god like us? UR'S OR ED'S?

My friend, this tired old argument fails, dramatically!!
bump
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