Loren Yadon's: Tragedies of War????

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Innocuous

You're right...KH wasn't going to do anything about LY's sermon until the political pressure mounted from the district and beyond. It was a political move fueled by what KH felt was personal affront. To me, that's not the kind of a decision process a real leader makes. I talked to KH personally about this and he got very angry and said "He shouldn't have drug my mother into it! That was his biggest mistake. He shouldn't have drug my mother into it!". The dumb thing is that LY didn't drag his mother into it, his mother did. SHE'S the one the wrote the book and published the pictures! Sigh. Whatever. I lost all respect for KH after that. He became just like all the others in my mind when he did that. He let his St. Louis ambitions lead him to throwing a good man under the bus.

Can anyone post these pictures? I would like to see them.

[Innocuous]

Originally Posted by Theophil

Can anyone post these pictures? I would like to see them.

I don't have the book anymore, sold all that stuff on Ebay 10 yrs ago. I think it was "Man From the Hills" or something like that. I'm pretty sure it was the one about her husband.

[Innocuous]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Sounds like the perceived personal affront also swayed this decision ....

I wonder if he still feels the same today some 15 years later.

Idk. Maybe you should send him an email and ask him.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by triumphant1

Dan,

I was evangelizing in California at that time. "Tragedy" was preached at Landmark the year that the "resolution" came down...I believe 1992? Anyway, he didn't say, Not to sign the AS" because there wasn't one yet. He just encouraged everyone to remember that the UPC was made up of at least 2 diverse Pentecostal group (PCI and PAJC) and that they decided to "fellowship the difference".

In that sermon was the first I had heard of the 'fellowship the difference" concept.

The ultimate plea in the message was that we should not go the route of drawing lines that were never meant to be drawn during the merger...and that warring with each other only serves to hurt the generations that follow--because of the division it continues to bring as more and more lines of separation are drawn.

He uses illustrations about how the UPC had become more and more polarized through the years where now (then-1992) things that would remove you from fellowship used to be accepted in leadership--"a pearl necklace on Clyde Haney's wife, beards, etc...)

I have the tape for sure...I would just have to sift through boxes to find it...if you want a copy pm me your address and I'll see what I can do

On bolded above I must have a foggy memory on the timeline. This sermon was obviously preached after the 1992 conference but BEFORE the first affirmation letters were sent out...and that is what I was remembering; it was before something...just not the GC but the AS...if Fudge's 1993 Landmark date is correct--I believe it is.

I don't remember him saying not to sign the AS in his message...only a plea for "fellowshipping the difference."

When I find the tape I'll listen to it again...

Sorry....

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Innocuous

I don't have the book anymore, sold all that stuff on Ebay 10 yrs ago. I think it was "Man From the Hills" or something like that. I'm pretty sure it was the one about her husband.

The man of the hills, served in the valley: The biography of Clyde J. Haney
by Olive Haney
is available at Amazon.com

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Fudge addresses the LY affair in his book ... prior to addressing it .... he shares an interesting account of how Clyde Haney dealt w/ Howard Goss teaching his view of salvation at WABC ... then Fudge shares the LY affair.

Pay close attention to the footnotes also.



The LY affair:

Daniel, you know that you and I are at different ends of this discussion as it pertains to salvation. For the newcomer and lurker I will state again for the record that I am a PAJCer in belief.

However, I am a strong believer in speaking the truth about history, be it world, country, or church. For someone to say that we don't need to know it because we've "moved beyond that" is unfair at it's best.

How can we "move beyond" those who showed us the Way?!

How can we so easily dismiss those who stood in the gap at risk of life and limb when being sanctified was looked down upon?!

I grew up without knowledge of others in the Body who held a different view. It is something I am not happy about, and have said so to anyone who would listen.

It is diversity that built the UNITED Pentecostal Church, International in 1945...so why is the bridge of unity torn apart today?!

Are we of the PAJC view so much more enlightened than our brothers who hold to a PCI view?!

Do we not all baptize in the Name above all others?!

Do we not all teach and believe in the baptism of the Spirit?!

So the PCIer believes that one is saved at belief and repentance...the end result is the same with souls being baptized and Spirit filled.

While I'm on my soapbox, let me share this...

A week or so ago, I was re-reading a teaching book. I took the book to my 78 year old mother, held it so that she could not see the title, and read a portion to her from the chaper on repentance.

After I read it, I asked, "Mom, what is the doctrinal view of the person who wrote this book?!"

She said, "It sounds like they believe we are saved at repentance."

The book is a study guide published by WAP, and has been used by UPCers world wide.

Folks have come too late to tell me that this is just a small faction that has been rooted out.

Sorry for the long post, but this subject makes me crazy when I think of how divisive it is, and how for many of us, this was and still is hushed up as though it has no importance.

[mizpeh]

Barb, loved your post! You should get on the soapbox more often!

The thing is is that Dan calls threestepper's heretics. He has taken on the mantle of those who are divisive amongst the threestepper crowd and now uses it to support the onestepper doctrine in the same divisive manner.

It's really sad we couldn't stay in the same fellowship (UPC) and fellowship the difference because the end result is the same.

[Sweet Pea]

I will make one statement and then step away from this thread. I believe there are others out there that will agree with me....

LY was NOT let go from CLC for the message he preached at Landmark. LY and KH had a gentleman's agreement regarding that... The straw that broke the camel's back was after he taught the PCI doctrine in his college classroom. He had been asked (told) not to teach that doctrine to the students. Within just a couple of days, he once again taught it - not as history, but as the plan of salvation.... THAT was the straw. Yes, KH made statements regarding his mother being brought into it - but the firing was over direct disobedience in what he was asked not to teach to the CLC students. And yes - his being asked not to teach PCI was probably a "political" move. I will say this - LY was/is a fabulous teacher - never forget some of his Wed PM Bible Studies - just good basic Christian living!

[Raven]

Great post Barb!
I like your balance and desire to be fair with our history, past, present and future. We need more like you.
Raven

[Barb]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Barb, loved your post! You should get on the soapbox more often!

The thing is is that Dan calls threestepper's heretics. He has taken on the mantle of those who are divisive amongst the threestepper crowd and now uses it to support the onestepper doctrine in the same divisive manner.

It's really sad we couldn't stay in the same fellowship (UPC) and fellowship the difference because the end result is the same.

Amen to that!!