Could Barak Obama be the Anti Christ?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

You misinterpret Matt 24 so therefore you have to change obvious meanings of words like "heaven" and "earth" to mean something other than what most elementary school studentd undrstand them to mean in order to fit the paradigm. I suppose when Peter talks about the elements melting with fervent heat that was also fulfilled in 70 AD.

You r well versed in what u believe TK, but I am sorry that it doesn't hold water scripturally. I know u like lengthy debates and u like trying to prove you've got the truth on this, but anyone willing to study these issues will find plenty wrong with preterism. I know what I believe and see in Scripture. I don't need to go on another debate rampage with you to prove anything.

Let me say something that is generally applicable to anyone in a similar situation as what I shall describe. And if the shoe fits, wear it.

When a person proposes an argument against an opposing argument, and has not thoroughly studied the opposing argument, that person falls under a biblical judgment of character.

Proverbs 18:13 KJV He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

So, a person has studied preterism with an open mind, such an one has no argument, just sarcasm, anyway.

I challenge anyone curious about these issues to search the scriptures and pray. The Lord will guide you through the prophetic passages of his word. But beware of false doctrine concerning these things.

Exactly! And beware of closed mindedness that will hinder someone from considering anything other than what they presently believe, causing them to miss SOMETHING and be in error, for no one has everything correct around here.

I will respond no further to anymore of these preterist diatribes. (Except with occasional sarcasm )

Read my motto below.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shag

Luke 21:20 (which parallells Matt. 24:15)“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

You don't believe this scripture was fullfilled in Ad 70, when Jerusulem was wiped out by the armies?

Shag, you would not believe the gymnastics people go through to explain that one! The official argument is really silly.

[mfblume]

Watch this:

Everyone is familiar with the SYNOPTIC GOSPELS... Matthew, Mark and Luke. They carry for the the same stories, for the most part, during Jesus' time on earth, and simply rephrase the stories from how they personally knew about it and the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 all relate the same conversation Jesus had with the disciples about the coming of the Lord.

Notice Matthew 24 says the "SIGN" the disciples asked about is the "coming" of the Lord and the end of the "age", whereas both Mark and Luke say the "SIGN" in the same conversation was of the destruction of the temple.

Mat 24:2-3 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


Luke 21:6-7 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (7) And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Mark 13:2-4 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, (4) Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

It’s the same conversation! Matthew records the same thought as Mark and Luke did, using different words. The manner in which we understand what the sign of the coming of the Lord in Matthew 24:3 is, is by realizing that same sign is noted in Luke as the sign when "these things" shall come to pass. What things? The stones of the temple being overthrown!

Futurists have often told me there is no way Jesus came when the temple was destroyed. And yet when I show this correlation of scriptures to them, they cannot answer me.

Let us allow scripture to interpret itself.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Watch this:

Everyone is familiar with the SYNOPTIC GOSPELS... Matthew, Mark and Luke. They carry for the the same stories, for the most part, during Jesus' time on earth, and simply rephrase the stories from how they personally knew about it and the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 all relate the same conversation Jesus had with the disciples about the coming of the Lord.

Notice Matthew 24 says the "SIGN" the disciples asked about is the "coming" of the Lord and the end of the "age", whereas both Mark and Luke say the "SIGN" in the same conversation was of the destruction of the temple.



It’s the same conversation! Matthew records the same thought as Mark and Luke did, using different words. The manner in which we understand what the sign of the coming of the Lord in Matthew 24:3 is, is by realizing that same sign is noted in Luke as the sign when "these things" shall come to pass. What things? The stones of the temple being overthrown!

Futurists have often told me there is no way Jesus came when the temple was destroyed. And yet when I show this correlation of scriptures to them, they cannot answer me.

Let us allow scripture to interpret itself.

Brother Blume,
Can you put a little more detail into the significance of the "stones being overthrown"? It is my understanding that the Jews hid or stored their gold here and that is why the stones were overthrown - to extract the gold.

I cannot find a reference for this.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by shag

Luke 21:20 (which parallells Matt. 24:15)“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

You don't believe this scripture was fullfilled in Ad 70, when Jerusulem was wiped out by the armies?

Some believe Luke’s Mount Olivet account is different than what is found in Matthew. This is not true. They are speaking of the same occurrence. The key to see why Luke wrote as he did is found in the opening statements of his gospel account: "It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus." Luke said he had “perfect understanding of ALL THINGS.” He wrote his gospel account to impart these facts to his friend Theophilus. This is also why Luke plainly said that seeing “the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place” was to be understood as seeing the Roman Army surrounding Jerusalem. This is why Matthew exhorted his reader to think it through to get an understanding of what he wrote (See Mat 24:15). Luke simplified this by bluntly telling Theophilus what would occur. Luke was correct. Titus’ army came within Luke’s generation and did surround Jerusalem just as he describe.

The Bible prophesied a three and one-half year (42 month/1260 day) siege against Jerusalem because of her rebellion against God’s Covenant. This began in AD66 when the Roman Emperor Nero gave two simple commands: destroy the city of Jerusalem and level her temple. To accomplish this fiat he picked a father and son to lead his Roman troops. The father was a fifty-seven year old commander named Vespasian, and his ambitious son’s name was Titus. After a series of political events in Rome, Titus began his assault around April, AD70. This was forty years (one generation) to the week from the crucifixion of Christ. Titus’ soldiers breached the third Wall of Jerusalem on May 25, and captured the newer parts of the city. By June they proceeded to enter the second quarter as the Jews withdrew behind the first wall. The Antonia Fortress fell to Titus on July 22, which was followed by the Romans burning the gates of the Temple and entering its courtyards. The Temple was burnt August 10, AD70 (the Jewish Ninth of AV). This is the exact day and month on which the first Temple was burnt years before by the king of Babylon in 586 BC. Romans burned the Lower City, assaulted Herod’s Palace, and entered the Upper City around September 2. This thereby ended the Jewish resistance on September 26, AD70.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Amen!! That is what got me to first see Fulfilled Escahtology. When I saw the entire Bible is about Jesus , then the rest began to fall into place.

Jesus is God’s plan. He is the One whose testimony is the spirit of prophecy (See Rev 9:10), and the one to whom we must look to properly interpret the prophecies found within the pages of our Bible (See Joh 14:6; Heb 1:2, 12:2). Jesus said, “Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me” (Joh 5:39). Paul similarly agreed with this when he said, “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith” (Gal 3:24). As we read through the pages of our Bibles, we see that from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible speaks about one master plan, of which Jesus was the focus. He was first mentioned in Gen 3:15 when God said, “And I will put enmity between thee [satan] and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy [satan’s] head, and thou shalt bruise his [Jesus’] heel.” This is, of course, the first promise recorded in our Bibles of Jesus coming as the Savior for mankind. This promise was made at the time of Adam’s fall, and was given as an assurance from God that mankind would someday receive from Him a spiritual reconciliation. This same promise is subsequently mentioned in different ways throughout the Old Testament. The good news is we do not have to wait for this reconciliation to arrive. The Apostle Peter believed this was true because he said he believed Jesus has NOW fulfilled these same promises (Act 3:18-26; 1 Pet 1:9-11).

Jesus was the plan that God made before the foundation of the world: (Rev 13:8) Angels announced His coming (Mat 1:20-25; Luk 1:26-38), a virgin brought Him into this world (Luk 1:26-35), Shepherds were called to His birth (Luk 2:8-17), the Magi came to pay Him homage (Mat 2:1-12), Simeon and Anna prayed to see His salvation’s arrival (Luk 2:22-38), John the Baptist prepared His way (Mat 3; Mar 1:1-11; Luk 3:1-23; Joh 1:19-34), the cross became His plan for the redemption of mankind (Mat 27:35-38; Mar 15:25-28; Luk 23:33-38; Joh 19:18-24; Rev 13:8), an empty tomb was His assurance of His reigning power in heaven and in earth (Mat 28:5, 6; Mar 16:4-6; Luk 24:1-6; Joh 20:6-17), the outpouring of His Holy Ghost on Pentecost was the reuniting of His Spirit with man’s (Act 1:4-8, 2:1-40; Joh 14:17; Rom 8:9), and on and on are the evidences found throughout the New Testament that Jesus was the One who came to fulfill all the redemptive promises found in the Bible.

Good post - Amen!

As I said, I'm still studying a little at a time.

What I do have a problem with is that it appears Revelation is left standing alone or outside, partially, from all the other books. I hope I explained that correctly. It just has never made sense to me. I think everything should blend and tie in from Genesis to Revelation. Some of the teaching I have had, or it could have been the way I perceived it - leaves it hanging alone. I don't know how else to explain that. LOL!

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Good post - Amen!

As I said, I'm still studying a little at a time.

What I do have a problem with is that it appears Revelation is left standing alone or outside, partially, from all the other books. I hope I explained that correctly. It just has never made sense to me. I think everything should blend and tie in from Genesis to Revelation. Some of the teaching I have had, or it could have been the way I perceived it - leaves it hanging alone. I don't know how else to explain that. LOL!

The Book of Revelation is John's detailed account of Jesus' Mount Olivet Discourse. I first saw this when it dawned on me that Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 each include Jesus’ words from that Mount, but nowhere do we find a peep mentioned about it in the gospel of John. Over and over I heard apostolic preachers say that Matthew 24 is the most significant prophecy chapter in our Bible. If that is the case (and I am not saying specifically that it is), then why didn't John—the disciple that Jesus greatly loved—include it as well? When I studied this through I realized that by comparing what Jesus taught in the Mount Olivet Discourse with what John included in the Book of Revelation, it is easy to see that John didn't just devote one chapter to Jesus’ sermon, but instead wrote an entire book detailing what Jesus had said would soon come to pass.

Because these prophecies are now past, Revelation is a detailed book of the history of what was and did come to pass during Jesus' generation. Revelation today is relevant because of the power of its testimony concerning its detailed and accurate fulfillment. To understand Jesus perfectly foretold—in detail—what would come to pass during His generation is a powerful witness that He is truly the Lord and Savior of all Mankind. Therefore the book of Revelation is very relevant for the Church today.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

The Book of Revelation is John's detailed account of Jesus' Mount Olivet Discourse. I first saw this when it dawned on me that Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 each include Jesus’ words from that Mount, but nowhere do we find a peep mentioned about it in the gospel of John. Over and over I heard apostolic preachers say that Matthew 24 is the most significant prophecy chapter in our Bible. If that is the case (and I am not saying specifically that it is), then why didn't John—the disciple that Jesus greatly loved—include it as well? When I studied this through I realized that by comparing what Jesus taught in the Mount Olivet Discourse with what John included in the Book of Revelation, it is easy to see that John didn't just devote one chapter to Jesus’ sermon, but instead wrote an entire book detailing what Jesus had said would soon come to pass.

Because these prophecies are now past, Revelation is a detailed book of the history of what was and did come to pass during Jesus' generation. Revelation today is relevant because of the power of its testimony concerning its detailed and accurate fulfillment.

To understand Jesus perfectly foretold—in detail—what would come to pass during His generation is a powerful witness that He is truly the Lord and Savior of all Mankind. Therefore the book of Revelation is very relevant for the Church today.

I agree. Revelation is very relevant for today. I'm still working through it. Somewhere around Chapter 15, I get confused and put it down.

I don't want my own thoughts or what others have said to influence my interpretation. It has to come as easy to me as when, as a new convert, the Lord showed me Isaiah 9:6 and confirmed who He was.

I believe that is the way it needs to come to us AND when God lays it out, you will never doubt it, no matter what other teachings you run across. That's what it needs to be for me.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I agree. Revelation is very relevant for today. I'm still working through it. Somewhere around Chapter 15, I get confused and put it down.

I don't want my own thoughts or what others have said to influence my interpretation. It has to come as easy to me as when, as a new convert, the Lord showed me Isaiah 9:6 and confirmed who He was.

I believe that is the way it needs to come to us AND when God lays it out, you will never doubt it, no matter what other teachings you run across. That's what it needs to be for me.

May the Lord bless you and your studies!

If I can ever be of service, please don't hessitate to ask.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

May the Lord bless you and your studies!

If I can ever be of service, please don't hessitate to ask.

Thanks! Brother Blume can attest that I am very slow in this area! LOL!