Water/Spirit

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

And yet Peter's very next sermon is ignored.

Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Baron,

There should be a harmony of these verses not one or the other. Some accounts of conversion in the book of Acts don't even mention repentance or Spirit infilling. Does that mean the convert did not repent or was not filled with the Spirit? We have to fill in the blanks with all the other accounts of conversions. Act 16:13-16

There is a thread which touched on John 3:3-5: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ullian&page=31 starting at post # 308. (Pelathais gets really longwinded at times )

[Mrs. LPW]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Mark a couple of years ago, i sat at a table with a family I used to go to church with. they were very much doctrinally sound. the parents decided they didnt like standards and left. they went to a former UPCI guys BIG church that you would know here in Dallas.

As we sat talking, it was clear THEY at lest still believe in the Oneness doctrine, at least that it is "more right" than the trinitarian view. their 18 year old daughter was simply lost in the discussion. she didnt understand there was any difference.

Her view was that "being a Christian" was all that was important. She was dating a guy that "belived in Jesus" and honestly didnt care one bit that he didnt go to church at all.

there is absolutly a progression away from doctrine that is connected to dropping standards.

I think some are fine with that. I for one am not.

There is a connection. I've seen it.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Mrs. LPW

There is a connection. I've seen it.

I'm glad I haven't seen it!

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Mark a couple of years ago, i sat at a table with a family I used to go to church with. they were very much doctrinally sound. the parents decided they didnt like standards and left. they went to a former UPCI guys BIG church that you would know here in Dallas.

As we sat talking, it was clear THEY at lest still believe in the Oneness doctrine, at least that it is "more right" than the trinitarian view. their 18 year old daughter was simply lost in the discussion. she didnt understand there was any difference.

Her view was that "being a Christian" was all that was important. She was dating a guy that "belived in Jesus" and honestly didnt care one bit that he didnt go to church at all.

there is absolutly a progression away from doctrine that is connected to dropping standards.

I think some are fine with that. I for one am not.

That is all anecdotal evidence. Show me somewhere in Scripture that rejecting man made doctrines leads to a rejection of truth. You have been talking to Chris Hall too much now you are sounding like him..."I knew a guy".

[theoldpaths]

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

In the context of the kingdom of heaven, Jesus identified 3 something coming together in 1 whole.

In Acts 1:8, Jesus identified 3 categories or groups of people that His disciples were going to be witnesses to: Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles.

When we examine Acts for the instances of Jesus' disciples being witnesses to these 3 groups for being born again, we find the following:

- Peter to the Jews in Acts 2 with Peter preaching to be baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ and to receive the Holy Ghost - water and Spirit

- Philip and then later Peter and John to the Samaritans in Acts 8 which included being baptized in the NAME of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost - water and Spirit

- Peter to the Gentiles in Acts 10 which included receiving the Holy Ghost and being baptized in the NAME of Jesus - water and Spirit

- Paul in the Gentile land of Ephesus in Acts 19 which included being baptized in the NAME of Jesus and receiving the HOly Ghost - water and Spirit

Incidentally, Paul was not present when Jesus told his apostles/disciples what to preach to the lost in Luke 24:47-49; however Paul said he got the gospel by revelation from the same Jesus and so in Acts 19 when he found sinners, he did the same things as Peter to the Jews in Acts 2; same things as Philip, Peter, and John to the Samaritans in Acts 8; and the same things as Peter to the Gentiles in Acts 10 - water baptism in the NAME of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost.

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

1 Cor 10:1-2 shows the OT type/shadow/figure/pattern of the NT being born again of the water and Spirit.

Were the Corinthians born again of the water and Spirit, being baptized in the NAME of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost? Let's see what Paul said to them...

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul told them that they WERE lost but now they are saved - how where they saved? What did it include? The NAME of Jesus and the Spirit, just like...

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Why did Peter preach Acts 2:38? Where did he get it from? From Jesus of course...

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luk 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


Luke 24:47-49 - includes repentance and remission of sins in HIS NAME and Holy Ghost

Acts 2:38 - includes repentance, baptism in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins, and receiving the Holy Ghost

Were the Gentile Corinthians born again in a different way or formula than the Jews, Samaritans, and the Gentile Cornelius and his house, and those in the Gentile land of Ephesus in Acts 19? Of course not!

To God be all the glory!

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Mark a couple of years ago, i sat at a table with a family I used to go to church with. they were very much doctrinally sound. the parents decided they didnt like standards and left. they went to a former UPCI guys BIG church that you would know here in Dallas.

As we sat talking, it was clear THEY at lest still believe in the Oneness doctrine, at least that it is "more right" than the trinitarian view. their 18 year old daughter was simply lost in the discussion. she didnt understand there was any difference.

Her view was that "being a Christian" was all that was important. She was dating a guy that "belived in Jesus" and honestly didnt care one bit that he didnt go to church at all.

there is absolutly a progression away from doctrine that is connected to dropping standards.

I think some are fine with that. I for one am not.

I think it is very thin ice to walk on when one leaves any teaching that they were under. Standards is sucha vital part of most OP teachings that when a person sees it as extra-biblical teaching that it often causes questions about other things they believe. There are things that are not questionable liek the gospel. The death, burial and resurrection or Jesus Christ. That is not debate. The virgin birth Jesus being diety, no debate. Baptism is a debate to some and standards is always a debate. In my life if I ever baptize someone it will be in Jesus name, but I am not going to blast someone that isn't. I believe it is the most accurate biblical way to do it. But it is a public sign to the joining of the church of Jesus Christ. It is the public showing of what is happening on the inside of you.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

That is all anecdotal evidence. Show me somewhere in Scripture that rejecting man made doctrines leads to a rejection of truth. You have been talking to Chris Hall too much now you are sounding like him..."I knew a guy".

The problem is, what you are calling "man made doctrines" are biblical principles to others. So to do away with what they perceive as biblical principles IS doing away with truth.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Mark a couple of years ago, i sat at a table with a family I used to go to church with. they were very much doctrinally sound. the parents decided they didnt like standards and left. they went to a former UPCI guys BIG church that you would know here in Dallas.

As we sat talking, it was clear THEY at lest still believe in the Oneness doctrine, at least that it is "more right" than the trinitarian view. their 18 year old daughter was simply lost in the discussion. she didnt understand there was any difference.

Her view was that "being a Christian" was all that was important. She was dating a guy that "belived in Jesus" and honestly didnt care one bit that he didnt go to church at all.

there is absolutly a progression away from doctrine that is connected to dropping standards.

I think some are fine with that. I for one am not.

The tragedy in some of these cases is not so much with the adults that initially left, but with the children who seem to have lost any semblance of a foundation of truth.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

In the context of the kingdom of heaven, Jesus identified 3 something coming together in 1 whole.

In Acts 1:8, Jesus identified 3 categories or groups of people that His disciples were going to be witnesses to: Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles.

When we examine Acts for the instances of Jesus' disciples being witnesses to these 3 groups for being born again, we find the following:

- Peter to the Jews in Acts 2 with Peter preaching to be baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ and to receive the Holy Ghost - water and Spirit

- Philip and then later Peter and John to the Samaritans in Acts 8 which included being baptized in the NAME of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost - water and Spirit

- Peter to the Gentiles in Acts 10 which included receiving the Holy Ghost and being baptized in the NAME of Jesus - water and Spirit

- Paul in the Gentile land of Ephesus in Acts 19 which included being baptized in the NAME of Jesus and receiving the HOly Ghost - water and Spirit

Incidentally, Paul was not present when Jesus told his apostles/disciples what to preach to the lost in Luke 24:47-49; however Paul said he got the gospel by revelation from the same Jesus and so in Acts 19 when he found sinners, he did the same things as Peter to the Jews in Acts 2; same things as Philip, Peter, and John to the Samaritans in Acts 8; and the same things as Peter to the Gentiles in Acts 10 - water baptism in the NAME of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost.

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

1 Cor 10:1-2 shows the OT type/shadow/figure/pattern of the NT being born again of the water and Spirit.

Were the Corinthians born again of the water and Spirit, being baptized in the NAME of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost? Let's see what Paul said to them...

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul told them that they WERE lost but now they are saved - how where they saved? What did it include? The NAME of Jesus and the Spirit, just like...

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Why did Peter preach Acts 2:38? Where did he get it from? From Jesus of course...

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luk 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


Luke 24:47-49 - includes repentance and remission of sins in HIS NAME and Holy Ghost

Acts 2:38 - includes repentance, baptism in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins, and receiving the Holy Ghost

Were the Gentile Corinthians born again in a different way or formula than the Jews, Samaritans, and the Gentile Cornelius and his house, and those in the Gentile land of Ephesus in Acts 19? Of course not!

To God be all the glory!

A lengthy post that says....nothing

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

The problem is, what you are calling "man made doctrines" are biblical principles to others. So to do away with what they perceive as biblical principles IS doing away with truth.

No doing away with clear Biblical teaching is doing away with truth. I don't care what someone else "perceives". What you perceive may have no relation to truth. We are talking about traditions that are so new in the scheme of thing they are almost faddish.