Acts 10: The Smoking Gun?

[OneAccord]

I agree with Dan to the point that I believe the Blood of Christ is "applied" at repentance. The soul is saved then and there. However, this doesn't negate the need for, or the essentiality of, water baptism and being filled with the Holy Ghost (not necessarily in that order).

This "smoking gun" the brother is waving around proves, at least in my view, that sins are forgiven at repentance. How else would one be ready to recieve the Holy Ghost until after they are baptized, if, in fact, it is water baptism that remits sin?

Water baptism, (again, in my view) is the first step of obedience the newly converted believer takes in his or her walk with God. Water baptism is where the sinful life, that died at repentance, is buried to be resurrected the 3rd day (3rd step) through the inception of the Holy Ghost.

As the laver of water in the OT stood between the altar (where atonement is made) and the Holy Place (The Baptism of the Holy Ghost), water baptism stands between repentance, and recieving the Holy Ghost (resurrection). Again, not necessarily in that order. God gave Cornelius household because they were ready to receive Him. Like the birth of a child, its safer to be birthed in a hospital, but often, the baby doesn't always follow the "rules".

Look at the number 3 as it relates to salvation throughout the entire Bible. Everything is always in 3's. Consider: The Tabernacle. Altar, Laver, Holy Place= Repentance, Baptism, Holy Ghost. Remember when Jesus spoke about the unclean spirit going out of a man: Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished. EMPTY (Sins are gone- Dead= REPENTANCE. SWEPT ( Separated, removed, buried= BAPTISM, and GARNISHED (Decorated, filled =HOLY GHOST. The Passion of Christ: DEATH- BURIAL- RESURRECTION- Repentance, baptism , Holy Ghost. What did the Apostle John say? 1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. There it is - 3 in agreement: Spirit (Holy Ghost), Water (Water Baptism, Blood (Repentance). And of course, Acts 2:38- all three gain.

I believe when a person repents they are ready to go (should they die without having the opportunity to be be baptized and recieve the HG). However, in order to continue his walk with God, he must submit to water baptism in Jesus' Name to separate himself from his past sinful life, and recieve the Holy Ghost (Acts2:4) for it is through and by the Holy Ghost that he is "endured with power from on high"

Death, (Blood), Burial (Baptism). Resurrection (Holy Ghost).

Some will put me on one side of the fence, and others will put me on the other side. But, think I'll just keep trying to tear that old fence down, by saying... well...I'll just let my Sig Line say it for me.....

[Rhoni]

I agree with Dan to the point that I believe the Blood of Christ is "applied" at repentance. The soul is saved then and there. However, this doesn't negate the need for, or the essentiality of, water baptism and being filled with the Holy Ghost (not necessarily in that order).

I agree.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

So, we return back to the original premise, and I am straightforward about this...

Is a soul damned to Hell if they are not baptized, though they believe in Christ, have confessed and repented of their sins?

No... but it is somewhat of a strange question... seeing that baptism immediately follows repentance in scripture.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

If being good, paying tithes, believing in Christ, and giving alms to the poor were enough then why would God bother to send a prophet to Cornelious to have he and his house baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit?

Did Cornelius believe in Christ?

His great deficiency was not baptism per se, but that he had not yet recieved Christ - the ultimate sacrifice.

The baptism and Holy Spirit came as a consequence of his recieving the good news that Jesus Christ had died for his sins.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Lafon

2 Corinthians 5:14-21 KJV (14) For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: (15) And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. (16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. (17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (20) Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. (21) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Christ's death occurred and we are baptized into that death/. This makes Christ's death count as OUR DEATHS. So there is no judgment of death to be fulfilled after we've been baptized into Christ's death, whether that is water baptism or not.

There is daily denying of self, but that is not a death. We died to sin once through Christ's death, into which we we're baptized. And that is the only judgment ever urged against us.

For this reason, Heb 9 teaches that it was due to man's required single death, and then judgment, that moved Christ to die once unto sin. In other words, His death occurred because WE had to die. Since salvation, WE ARE DEAD to sin, once and for all. Jesus no more died many times to sin than we have to. He died once to sin. And when baptized into that death, we are to LIKEWISE consider ourselves DEAD INDEED to sin! It's a done deal.

27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Why would you claim DEATH is due the saint of God?

I trust I did not misrepresent you. Sorry if I did. But it sounds like you do not believe death is paid for in FULL once we are saved.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Mrs. LPW

(Here I go again folks)

I believe I agree with the bolded... although I'd like to hear a bit more of your view...
I completely agree with your second bolded statement.

Dan statement is not that one is righteous after recieving the Spirit.. but righteous after believing on the Lord.

Oops! Truly sorry that I mis-read Dan's emphasis [to which I must add that I would also disagree]. I am firmly convinced that mere "belief," no matter how sincere, is NOT sufficient for attaining the "righteousness of God," for such cannot be accomplished apart from obedience to the dictates of Acts 2:38.

With regards to providing additional scriptural evidence in support of my belief that the act of water baptism "in the name of the Lord" does NOT negate that penalty of death which God imposed upon ALL flesh as a consequence of Adam's willful disobedience, I would encourage you to consider the following:

Ecclesiastes 2:14 & 16
"...ONE event happened to them all."
"...how dieth the wise man? as the fool."

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
"For THAT which befalleth the sons of men also befalleth beasts; even ONE THING BEFALLETH THEM: AS THE ONE DIETH, SO DIETH THE OTHER; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. ALL GO UNTO ONE PLACE; ALL ARE OF THE DUST, AND ALL TURN TO DUST AGAIN."

Ecclesiastes 6:1 & 6
"There is AN EVIL which I have seen under the sun, and it is COMMON among men:..."
"...do not ALL GO TO ONE PLACE?"

Ecclesiastes 8:6-8
"Because to EVERY purpose there is a time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him. For he knoweth not THAT WHICH SHALL BE: for who can tell him when IT shall be? There is NO man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in THE DAY OF DEATH: and there is NO DISCHARGE IN THAT WAR;..."

Ecclesiastes 9:2-3 & 5
"ALL things come ALIKE to ALL: there is ONE EVENT to the righteous, AND to the wicked; to the clean AND to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, AND to him that sacrificeth not; as is the good, SO is the sinner, AND he that sweareth, AS he that feareth an oath..."
"FOR THE LIVING KNOW THAT THEY SHALL DIE:..."

Some might suggest that because these passages are from the Old Testament, they are not applicable under the terms of God's "new covenant" with mankind, however, did not Paul tell us that "ALL scripture is... profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness..."? [II Timothy 3:16]

Hope this will add to your understanding of this issue.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Did Cornelius believe in Christ?

His great deficiency was not baptism per se, but that he had not yet recieved Christ - the ultimate sacrifice.

The baptism and Holy Spirit came as a consequence of his recieving the good news that Jesus Christ had died for his sins.

I might ask you, If believing in Christ were enough why then did he and his whole house get baptized and why did they all receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues?

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

No... but it is somewhat of a strange question... seeing that baptism immediately follows repentance in scripture.

But, what if a soul cannot be baptized for physical reasons?

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

I might ask you, If believing in Christ were enough why then did he and his whole house get baptized and why did they all receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues?

It was and is a sign of the covenant that God has with the individual. Just as circumcision came about because it was of the covenant Abraham had with God by faith, so is baptism now for us.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

I might ask you, If believing in Christ were enough why then did he and his whole house get baptized and why did they all receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues?

Because baptism is the answer for a clear conscience - a public proclamation that you now belong to Him.

And on the second item, because the Lord loves to give good gifts to his own blood-bought children.