Convictions or Politics? A Specific Example.

[jrLA]

Originally Posted by Sam

Tim was speaking to you as an elder.
His years of experience have earned him that designation.

Sorry Sam....I have pastored folks lots older than Tim...Wouldn't let them say it either. Just me!

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by StMark

Jr, Tim's cool people - you're safe

you tell 'em "kid"

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by jrLA

Sorry, but I dpn't like being spoken to like that, Where I am from that can be down talk.

Well...at least he didn't call you girly ............

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Like begets like.

Humans beget humans.

Horses beget horses.

Hazelwood begat Tulsa.

The Tulsa Six did not learn their politics from the AOG.

(This thread is too interesting not to bump)

Let's follow this "logic" though to it's conclusion.... who begot Hazelwood? Eventually you are gonna lead back to Springfield.

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

I don't like anybody other than mom or dad to call me 'son,' either.

I'll take it alright from older saints I've been close to for years, the kind of folks you would like to adopt as a second set of parents, but coming from a faceless stranger on the internet I would interpret it as desultory just as jrLa has.

I don't care how old or well respected a man is, if he calls me "son" he's saying something unkind about my mother.

Can we call ya squirt?

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Who

Can we call ya squirt?

At the rate I'm losing weight, you may HAVE TO!

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Now I'm not so egotistical as to think my thoughts should be isolated on a new thread, but this post got buried in "Tulsa Day 2" and I think it may be interesting to some - at least it may deserve a little perusal.

JrLa said this in response to a post of Steadfast's where he was gushing about how these great Tulsa brethren were "forced" to do what they did because their conservative convictions were being trampled upon:

JrLa, you have a lot to learn but you expressed yourself well here:



I then said the following:




Now Steadfast, in your attempts to make these Tulsa brethren's motives appear as pure as the wind-driven snow, you gotta admit the kid might have a point here.

"Might"?

I KNOW he does.

Let's use a specific example of whether the Tulsa guys are motivated by the UPC drifting "leftward."

I guess "worldly sports" would be considered something these guys would be concerned with, eh?

I notice Rick Treece is one of the "council of 49."

He's a great guy, a fine minister and one of the not-so-many whose ministry is not just a pale reflection of daddy's. He carved out his own niche and is not just "prophecy preacher" Jr.

Marvin Treece was not my pastor. Murrell Ewing was. But Marvin Treece was probably the preacher I tried to emulate as far as study habits, qualifications and professional bearing.

One could sit in front of Marvin Treece and feel the same sense of "qualification" and "professionalism" that one feels in his doctor's or attorney's office.

That's not a common thing to me.

A significant number of "ole time" pentecostal preachers, I wouldn't want or trust to counsel me when to go use the bathroom, much less on weightier matters involving my career or family.

But my relationship with the Treeces goes back many years.

I've preached for them and they've preached for me.

Marvin and Rick never were big "organizational" men.

I don't mean that in a bad sense - but in the sense that Marvin might not go every night to Louisiana campmeeting because he was fatigued from preaching out. Like he told me one time: "I want to be home sometimes."

But I find it rather ludicrous that Rick Treece would be on the general board of a new organization predicated on being more "holy" and "conservative" than the present day UPC.

But anyway, back to "worldly sports."

My ex-brother-in-law has attended Apostolic Temple for many years.

And yes, we still have very friendly relations.

His sons are and were extremely good high school athletes ... almost borderline college-scholarship athletes. Baseball and basketball, primarily.

And yes, with all the "immodest clothing" and "worldly atmosphere" and all the tired old cliches "old time pentecost" throws at these things.

I checked with my son and daughter to be sure my facts were straight and they mentioned times when their cousins could not be at youth camp because of American Legion baseball schedules.

Now me personally?

I'M not calling "hypocrites." My children's cousins are fine young men and I'm glad they are examples of 21st century apostolic youth, ALONG with Kathleen Herles.

I guess the stone-throwers like this "Melody" would rather have them on a barstool than wearing a dress that shows a little shoulder or wearing basketball shorts.

I'm not condemning - I applaud Pastor Treece for not being some micro-manager pastor.

And yes, my ex-brother-in-law's family is involved and are one of the main families at Apostolic Temple - they are not just observers.

Pray tell, HOW would some of these neanderthals in the Tulsa crowd feel if they knew one of their oh-so-conservative general board members allows his youth to play worldly high school sports?

So what is happening?

This is a political shindig where these guys are tolerating in their buddies what they condemn in their political enemies.

That's the truth that this SPECIFIC example brings out.

I won't even TOUCH the TV thing.

But frankly, I don't blame Epley for laughing at some of the names on there who are so dead set against television while their churches are full of them.

I'll leave that alone.

But if any of you people trying to make plaster saints out of this Tulsa gang challenges me on this, I can and WILL name names.

But you people know the truth of that as much as I do.

So JrLa, for a young guy with a lot to learn, you hit the nail right on the head so don't let anyone try to tell you your youth betrays you here.

Tulsa is NOT about "convictions."

It's about POLITICS, pure and simple.

And some of you preachers and others can just wrestle with that all you want to.

Thanks Tim...

One is left to wonder, really. Is it truly about CONVICTIONS or is it truly all about POLITICS, pure and simple.

You have give us things to ponder. How deeply can we really ponder these things is determined by the depth of experience on one hand and the depth of spiritual exercise of prayer and in the Word of God on the other hand.

I would hope that we would all choose the latter, spending our time "watch ye therefore and pray..." for the sound of the cry at midnight shall suddenly break through the sleeping night.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Thanks Tim...

One is left to wonder, really. Is it truly about CONVICTIONS or is it truly all about POLITICS, pure and simple.

You have give us things to ponder. How deeply can we really ponder these things is determined by the depth of experience on one hand and the depth of spiritual exercise of prayer and in the Word of God on the other hand.

I would hope that we would all choose the latter, spending our time "watch ye therefore and pray..." for the sound of the cry at midnight shall suddenly break through the sleeping night.

**thumbsup**

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Felicity

**thumbsup**

Thanks for the thumbsup Felicity.

I started a thread entitled, "Body-Politic and the way of Lawlessness." I seem to be getting very few thumbsup there. I wonder why, OOOOOH, I wonder WHY?

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Like begets like.

Humans beget humans.

Horses beget horses.

Hazelwood begat Tulsa.

The Tulsa Six did not learn their politics from the AOG.

(This thread is too interesting not to bump)

OMG. this is AN EXCELLENT point!

Bravo!