Here's a thought experiment for us to consider. (I've been criticized before for bringing up hypotheticals. Why? Not sure, but I have a theory. But never mind that, now. If you don't like hypotheticals, stop reading right here.)
What would happen if every denomination, organization/fellowship of ministers, and church in the world, whether they are Oneness or not, Pentecostal or not, fundamentalist or not, were suddenly to shut their doors, close up shop, disband. Every minister, preacher, evangelist, missionary, denomination/fellowship official tears up their credentials. Everyone is a layman now, each reading the Bible and studying for themselves (OK, small groups in homes are allowed!), searching God in their own way.
Would God's work stop?
Or would it continue, perhaps stronger than ever? Everyone lives the life that God leads them into, doing the work God gives them, loving their neighbor as themselves, loving each other, loving God.
Do we really need to meet once a week, or twice, or the more the better? To hear a "sermon", which more times than not is a rehashing of things we've heard over and over again? (Not that repetition is always bad, but sometimes it gets ridiculous!) Do some of us need all the rules laid out for us? Do some of us need to be constantly reminded how sinful we are, and if we don't toe the line, do we need to be berated and humiliated?
Isn't God powerful enough to lead individuals into truth, when they seek it?
(NOTE: I am not claiming that nothing good ever happens in churches or denominations. That's not the purpose of this little thought experiment. Not really advocating this massive shutdown, either. But I do wonder, sometimes, if the good outweighs the bad, all things considered.)
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
When I think of fundamentalist Christianity, I think of those who claim to have the only and ultimate truth, and who send everyone else who is not in their little group to hell.
This includes, but is not limited to most conservative Christian denominations, and politically the religious right.
As for denominations and such, I pretty much scorn organized religion as a whole.
Though I might consider myself unorthodox or "out of the box", you and 99% of the people on this board would probably prefer the following labels:
It sure reads that way - - and then I wonder if the "obey those that have rule over you" would ever come into play for Trouvere?
When people are made to feel that what the minister says is straight from GOD and if they do not comply that they are rebelling against God, how could someone blame them.
Now, it's easy for us to say "well, I would never put up with that" or "I'd never give the key to my house to my pastor", but that's because we aren't UNDER that authority. When someone is - they only feel they are obeying and doing what's right.
I'm appalled to think that someone would "blame" this poor lady. Like I said, until you walk in their shoes, you need to not carry that big ole stick.
Believe me....I thought I was too intelligent to ever fall for a cult...I always thought how stupid can a person be to not see....
Be careful all what you think your too smart for....brainwashing is a very subtle thing...
One is not saved by Christianity, either inside or outside of it. One is saved by Jesus, period.
The opposite of organized religion would be disorganized religion
For me, it simply means that I have no desire to be involved in an organization, denomination, congregation, or church.
I view faith as an individual thing that is between one and the Lord. I think the modern church has put entirely too much power in the hands of others, whether due to laziness, or just because that is what they were taught to do.
Additionally, I am of the opinion that once a group of believers gets organized and starts to set up leadership and structure, they tend to get off track. Eventually their main concerns seem to be about money, programs, and building bigger buildings, as well as having a little spiritual country club with those who think exactly like them.
I am not denying their right to do those things, I just don't want to be a part of it.
This my girl is an excellent post.....you hit it right on the head!
Brother Thad if it truly is a victim.The thing I am sick of is adults who can get in their car bellyaching about the UPC.Gas may not be cheap but it is accessable.That is what I am sick of reading.When someone is young and taken advantage of by adults its one thing but to be a grown person and allow someone to enslave you into a cultish mindset it wrong.People can
be charged and go to prison for coming into your house and abusing your kids or doing other things to you and yours.That is what I am addressing.Its nothing about beating up victims.There is a true victim and then there is the victim mindset.Some people just like to remain in that field and bat that ball around for years.It gets old.
I used to feel that way too...how could anyone be so stupid....believe me...its not something you give into....it happens because you don't know any better....I was 50 years old when I was saved....so in many respects spiritually speaking I was a child...I didn't know anything else....so please don't be so critical until you have walked in my shoes...and I must tell you...you can have this happen to you....it may have already you just don't know it......maybe you should think a bit and pray a bit more, because to criticize someone for being a victim means you have no compassion and believe me that is one thing I have learned...never set yourself up to think it could NEVER happen to you!
If you have read all the posts here you will see that for us that were abused and wounded our first real experience with church was in an abusive church, so we did not have the knowledge or skills to do as you suggest. Brainwashing is a very subtle thing, you don't know its happening and you don't know that seeds are planted...when you come into the church as I did, with an open heart and completely believing the pastor was the highest authority and there was no questioning him....I had no way of knowing this was not how it should be...I was totally absorbed into my church...it WAS my life, I had nothing else....everything thing we did was about the church...EVERYTHING...holidays, vacations, weekends, our lives were the church...we thought that was how you served God...I am sorry but your really not seeing it....
First of all when I was Roman Catholic they taught that the pastor was infallible.I am sure you can see from the bible that he is not.You have learned a valuable lesson.Not all pentecostal or UPC churches have a cult mentality.I go to a church that has over eight hundred plus members.My pastor hasn't the time to micromanage us.I have to live for God by having a relationship with Jesus first.
You were doing the right thing from what you posted in the above except that you had no other life it seems.So now go out and try again.The bible has not changed and God has not changed.You are still living and breathing.It may not be easy and you may have been duped and maybe you are kicking yourself but there still are good churches and good pastors out there.Leaving a church because it was a nightmare does not mean you have to leave truth.Its time to move on.Sunday is tommorrow how
about getting out that phone book and calling up pastors and asking what they do teach and believe.You will be surprised at how many baptize in Jesus Name and believe you need the Holy Ghost to be saved.You will be surprised at how many believe that there is only one God.Someone may have done you wrong but you don't have to committ spiritual suicide over it.Be proactive.Go out and find a church.Love yourself again.
Sister that is not what I posted.I am not rebellious.The bible does not teach
us to be zombies for Jesus.
What if when you start out in your walk you don't know the bible yet...you have never been to church really so you don't know....how it should be....really you worry me...because I think your probably not seeing reality!
Here's a thought experiment for us to consider. (I've been criticized before for bringing up hypotheticals. Why? Not sure, but I have a theory. But never mind that, now. If you don't like hypotheticals, stop reading right here.)
What would happen if every denomination, organization/fellowship of ministers, and church in the world, whether they are Oneness or not, Pentecostal or not, fundamentalist or not, were suddenly to shut their doors, close up shop, disband. Every minister, preacher, evangelist, missionary, denomination/fellowship official tears up their credentials. Everyone is a layman now, each reading the Bible and studying for themselves (OK, small groups in homes are allowed!), searching God in their own way.
Would God's work stop?
Or would it continue, perhaps stronger than ever? Everyone lives the life that God leads them into, doing the work God gives them, loving their neighbor as themselves, loving each other, loving God.
Do we really need to meet once a week, or twice, or the more the better? To hear a "sermon", which more times than not is a rehashing of things we've heard over and over again? (Not that repetition is always bad, but sometimes it gets ridiculous!) Do some of us need all the rules laid out for us? Do some of us need to be constantly reminded how sinful we are, and if we don't toe the line, do we need to be berated and humiliated?
Isn't God powerful enough to lead individuals into truth, when they seek it?
(NOTE: I am not claiming that nothing good ever happens in churches or denominations. That's not the purpose of this little thought experiment. Not really advocating this massive shutdown, either. But I do wonder, sometimes, if the good outweighs the bad, all things considered.)
I think this is already happening....more and more house churches...small groups of people getting together to study the bible, pray, fellowship together...letting God lead them....
I refer you to Mich's excellent post about what happens in organized religion! What was the early church really like? Did they have to have a million dollar building to have church...was there competition to see who had the nicest modest clothes()sorry this just cracks me up...how they claim to be modest...blah blah blaa and show up with feathers in there hair....sorry off topic there....
I think God's work would explode under your hypothesis!!!
Here's a thought experiment for us to consider. (I've been criticized before for bringing up hypotheticals. Why? Not sure, but I have a theory. But never mind that, now. If you don't like hypotheticals, stop reading right here.)
What would happen if every denomination, organization/fellowship of ministers, and church in the world, whether they are Oneness or not, Pentecostal or not, fundamentalist or not, were suddenly to shut their doors, close up shop, disband. Every minister, preacher, evangelist, missionary, denomination/fellowship official tears up their credentials. Everyone is a layman now, each reading the Bible and studying for themselves (OK, small groups in homes are allowed!), searching God in their own way.
Would God's work stop?
Or would it continue, perhaps stronger than ever? Everyone lives the life that God leads them into, doing the work God gives them, loving their neighbor as themselves, loving each other, loving God.
Do we really need to meet once a week, or twice, or the more the better? To hear a "sermon", which more times than not is a rehashing of things we've heard over and over again? (Not that repetition is always bad, but sometimes it gets ridiculous!) Do some of us need all the rules laid out for us? Do some of us need to be constantly reminded how sinful we are, and if we don't toe the line, do we need to be berated and humiliated?
Isn't God powerful enough to lead individuals into truth, when they seek it?
(NOTE: I am not claiming that nothing good ever happens in churches or denominations. That's not the purpose of this little thought experiment. Not really advocating this massive shutdown, either. But I do wonder, sometimes, if the good outweighs the bad, all things considered.)
Yeah imagine that God choose that by the foolishness of preaching we would be saved.How callous of God to decide that we need to hear a sermon or be reminded of our sinful conditon.What a shame that we have follow the bible
huh???
First of all when I was Roman Catholic they taught that the pastor was infallible.I am sure you can see from the bible that he is not.You have learned a valuable lesson.Not all pentecostal or UPC churches have a cult mentality.I go to a church that has over eight hundred plus members.My pastor hasn't the time to micromanage us.I have to live for God by having a relationship with Jesus first.
You were doing the right thing from what you posted in the above except that you had no other life it seems.So now go out and try again.The bible has not changed and God has not changed.You are still living and breathing.It may not be easy and you may have been duped and maybe you are kicking yourself but there still are good churches and good pastors out there.Leaving a church because it was a nightmare does not mean you have to leave truth.Its time to move on.Sunday is tommorrow how
about getting out that phone book and calling up pastors and asking what they do teach and believe.You will be surprised at how many baptize in Jesus Name and believe you need the Holy Ghost to be saved.You will be surprised at how many believe that there is only one God.Someone may have done you wrong but you don't have to committ spiritual suicide over it.Be proactive.Go out and find a church.Love yourself again.
In no way have I committed spiritual suicide...for heavens sake your really not reading what is being said...I have moved on...I was asked to start this thread, and it has drawn several who have had the same thing happen to them, they find out they are not alone, and it helps everyone heal...I would hope it will help the church.... going around with a bag on your head will not solve the problem...this is a problem in the church and it needs to have the light of truth shown upon it....
)sorry this just cracks me up...how they claim to be modest...blah blah blaa and show up with feathers in there hair....sorry off topic there....
going around with a bag on your head will not solve the problem...this is a problem in the church and it needs to have the light of truth shown upon it....
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