Was it necessary to repeal DADT?

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Sorry this is hard to do on my phone.

Jason I have no doubt you are a good man. It does seem you resort to suggesting Smith myself et al are somehow prompting sin. Also troubling is the implication that the degree of compassion shown toward the unregenerate by Smith et al is somehow inappropriate. I recognize many would not be comfortable doing what he is but that does not make him immoral or promoting sin. To the contrary I see it as fulfillment of the Christian mission.

Bump

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

That is quite a stretch. If you fellowship with a pedophile is quite different than someone that is gay. Pedophilia is against the law. Being homosexual isn't. It's not a sickness that you can catch so why not be friends with them? There would be not other way for you to show them God if you stand across the room and shun them. If they repent would you really fellowship them? Really? I mean I have heard from people with your simliar point of view they wouldn't fellowship them NO WAY, NO HOW. Grace take care of us all-no matter our ills.

OK to fellowship a homosexual but not pedophile?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

That is quite a stretch. If you fellowship with a pedophile is quite different than someone that is gay. Pedophilia is against the law. Being homosexual isn't. It's not a sickness that you can catch so why not be friends with them? There would be not other way for you to show them God if you stand across the room and shun them. If they repent would you really fellowship them? Really? I mean I have heard from people with your simliar point of view they wouldn't fellowship them NO WAY, NO HOW. Grace take care of us all-no matter our ills.

I understand Tim's point, and agree with it to a point. If we fellowship certain things it can appear as approval. I once had a friend who was in a very adulterous relationship. One night he invited me over, I worked with him, and his roommate was my boss and they were having a cookout. I went and when I got there the woman (who also worked with us) who was married w/4 children was there. When I got there she left (thankfully). To be around them would easily have been seen as approving. I was asked about it because everyone knew I was friends with the male who was involved.

I was able to maintain a friendship with this man, even while rejecting his adultery. I did speak to him about it a couple of times, but he refused to repent, and justified his sin (as many people do). I nevertheless have remained friends with him to this day, though I'm not going to hang out with him very often BECAUSE of his lifestyle.

So in that sense I think Tims point has merit, to fellowship with them can be seen as approval, even if we don't attend it that way.

However to act appalled and not speak to them or be friendly and kind and show the love of Christ, I think would be grave error. I think that is where the argument comes in that homosexuality isn't any different that adultery, fornication, lying, theiving, etc. We should be friends of sinners, we don't need to hang out with them all the time-on their terms.

My best friend isn't saved, and lives one of the most immoral ungodly lifestyles of anyone I know. We hang out on occasion, and I have him come over to the house and eat sometimes. But we don't hang around each all day everyday, not because I don't love him, bu because our desires are polar opposites. I desire the things of God, and he desires the things of the world, and in that sense there is a disconnet. Sorry for the rambling, but again the issue isn't, loving the sinner. We should do that (I can't speak for Tim R and don't know if he agrees with my post or not).

[Tim Rutledge]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

So people must repent and change their lifestyle Before they are worthy to be in your presence? Where is that scripture? 2 Rutlege 3:16?

No sir.

If you have obeyed Acts 2:38 your my brother and only by the grace of God will any of us make it.

You ever heard of Elder Verbal Bean?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

OK to fellowship a homosexual but not pedophile?

Yes. Why not? They are COMPLETELY different.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I thought you said something very similar, but I'd have to dig back through the thread, and I'm not going to. You said something about feeling uncomfortable.... something like that.

Yes, here it is:
http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...&postcount=414
In this post I said the wedding was a struggle. But not the decision to attend.


I still don't think you're seeing the viewpoint. It's not about being exclusionary. It's just the fact that there is very real sin out there (not just homosexuality), and we have to all work out for ourselves how we interact with those involved, and how we deal with it all on a day to day basis.

You brought up a question a while back - I think it was "Would you drive a friend to a bar?" (something like that) These are ethical/spiritual questions we all have to work out for ourselves.

I understand WHY you made the decision to attend. I would have made a different one. Because to me, no matter what I said, I would feel that I was participating in something that God condemns. I would have felt no differently about attending the ceremony than I would have felt about performing the ceremony.

I could have them over for dinner, help them if they're needy, give them love and counsel when they're hurting. Just because I wouldn't attend the ceremony doesn't mean that I don't understand the unconditional love of God or that I'm removed from the core of the movement.

(And it's statements like the second quote that make people think you think you're just a tad more spiritual than those who disagree with you. )

*I linked the post where I said I struggled. I was referring to the wedding itself...it was uncomfortable. I didn't struggle with the decision to attend. It's in blue, above.

When I said, "Exclusionary", I'm speaking of the "Christian Bubble" that Dan Kimball talks a lot about in his book, "They Like Jesus But Not The Church." It's the secluded, removed, separated world that those of us that have been raised in the Christian Culture often find ourselves in. It's in that bubble that we find it easy to remove ourselves from anyone that doesn't meet up to our code.

The ironic thing is, most in "The world" would feel no obligation to take such a stand and show their disapproval and would simply go, attend, and support out of a motivation of love.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Yes. Why not? They are COMPLETELY different.

Don't all sinners even pedophiles need unconditional love and support as well?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Bump

James I'm not sure what you asking of me here. I've already responded to Mr. Smith, and cleared up that I don't think He is promoting sin, but in my view his actions can cause some uncertainty. Is there something your asking of me in particular?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I understand Tim's point, and agree with it to a point. If we fellowship certain things it can appear as approval. I once had a friend who was in a very adulterous relationship. One night he invited me over, I worked with him, and his roommate was my boss and they were having a cookout. I went and when I got there the woman (who also worked with us) who was married w/4 children was there. When I got there she left (thankfully). To be around them would easily have been seen as approving. I was asked about it because everyone knew I was friends with the male who was involved.

I was able to maintain a friendship with this man, even while rejecting his adultery. I did speak to him about it a couple of times, but he refused to repent, and justified his sin (as many people do). I nevertheless have remained friends with him to this day, though I'm not going to hang out with him very often BECAUSE of his lifestyle.

So in that sense I think Tims point has merit, to fellowship with them can be seen as approval, even if we don't attend it that way.

However to act appalled and not speak to them or be friendly and kind and show the love of Christ, I think would be grave error. I think that is where the argument comes in that homosexuality isn't any different that adultery, fornication, lying, theiving, etc. We should be friends of sinners, we don't need to hang out with them all the time-on their terms.

My best friend isn't saved, and lives one of the most immoral ungodly lifestyles of anyone I know. We hang out on occasion, and I have him come over to the house and eat sometimes. But we don't hang around each all day everyday, not because I don't love him, bu because our desires are polar opposites. I desire the things of God, and he desires the things of the world, and in that sense there is a disconnet. Sorry for the rambling, but again the issue isn't, loving the sinner. We should do that (I can't speak for Tim R and don't know if he agrees with my post or not).

One has to use proper judgment when choosing their friends. That said someone can be your friend and you not approve of their lifestyle. I know better than some because of people I was friends in the past were accused of some rather bad things and some people wondered if I were wrapped up in it. I wasn't and I made it clear, but the friend was my friend regardelss.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

James I'm not sure what you asking of me here. I've already responded to Mr. Smith, and cleared up that I don't think He is promoting sin, but in my view his actions can cause some uncertainty. Is there something your asking of me in particular?

My typing is so bad I make erros like this all the time or leave a letter off a word or transpose or place an apostraphe in the wrong spot, or don't use one at all. I do notice, I just don't bother to fix them, as many mistakes as I make, I figure I'd be more busy fixin' than postin'. My apologizies to the grammer police.