Power Evangelism, according to Jesus - Page 6

Jermyn Davidson · #51 01-16-2017, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

According to your logic, He didn't need to pray, eat, or sleep either.

I am not saying that at all!

Of course He was a human being, but He is God first.

He never stopped being God when He put on humanity.

Esaias · #52 01-16-2017, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

"Oneness Cap" is off.
I am still thinking about all this.

Did Jesus Christ curse the fig tree as man or as the Son of God?

Did He calm the sea with His voice or did he calm the sea with his voice because he was anointed?

Raise Lazarus?

If your position is that Jesus Christ performed all of his ministry and miracles as a man only, then are you saying that the only way He demonstrated Himself to be the Son of God was when He rose from the dead?

This is all still related to Paragraph I.

My position is what the Bible says. God anointed Jesus with the Holy Ghost and power.

Can you provide any verses which say clearly that Jesus did any miraculous thing BECAUSE HE WAS GOD? Other than being raised from the dead?

Here, here's a verse where Jesus Himself says He Himself DOES NOTHING:

Joh_5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

And again:

Joh_5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Esaias · #53 01-16-2017, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I am not saying that at all!

Of course He was a human being, but He is God first.

He never stopped being God when He put on humanity.

You ARE saying that. You are saying He did not need to be guided by the Spirit because He is God. Thus, whatever a human would need, He did not, because HE was and is God. Therefore, He did not need to eat, sleep, pray, etc.

Tell me, why did He pray?

Esaias · #54 01-16-2017, 01:46 AM

And, one last time, I never even said Jesus didn't know what awaited Him in Samaria.

This whole argument is based on a straw man to begin with.

And the purpose of the thread has been thwarted.

Typical. Oh well, teach me to post anything serious on AFF, right?

lol

Jermyn Davidson · #55 01-16-2017, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

sigh.

Well, the thread's been hijacked into a debate about whether or not Jesus actually is a genuine human being. Do you not think it strange that the other oneness folks never saw the 'issues' with my article that you do?

Okay, here we go, one more time.

According to you, Jesus the Son of God is and was omniscient, and could not have 'not known' anything.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

You are refuted by His own declaration.

AS for 'how do you tell when He is acting as Son of God, as an anointed man, and as a normal man?' the question is silly, and here's why. Jesus ALWAYS acted as the Son of God, as an anointed man, and as a 'normal' man - if by 'normal' you mean a genuine, fully human man. He is called 'Son of God' because of the virgin birth, not because He is 'God', but because He was born by the miraculous power of the Holy Ghost:

Luk_1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

He was and is a man, a genuine, complete human being:

1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

He was anointed by God with the Holy Ghost and operated in the power of the Spirit:

Act_10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Yet, the 'great mystery' is that He is nevertheless GOD:

Rom_9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

If you weren't clearly taught these things, then you weren't clearly taught Oneness. Either that, or you didn't pay attention.

Thank you for this post.

I was taught and agree with JUST ABOUT all that you have typed.

I don't think I have ever heard anyone emphasize the Sonship of Jesus Christ using the verse you used.

I SEE THAT VERSE IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LIGHT.

Thank you very much. Sincerely.

It's your explanation of whether Jesus is acting as God or man when performing ministry and miracles that I just don't agree with. In fact, I don't understand what you are saying.

And no, your thread is not hijacked.

This is all related to Paragraph I-- where you say that Jesus was divinely guided. I hope you can see the connection between that phrase and our current discussion.

Jermyn Davidson · #56 01-16-2017, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

You ARE saying that. You are saying He did not need to be guided by the Spirit because He is God. Thus, whatever a human would need, He did not, because HE was and is God. Therefore, He did not need to eat, sleep, pray, etc.

Tell me, why did He pray?

I was taught that Jesus prayed because He was setting the example for us to follow-- He subjected Himself to the limitations of humanity but at any time, He could simply act in His Power and Authority as God.

Jermyn Davidson · #57 01-16-2017, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

And, one last time, I never even said Jesus didn't know what awaited Him in Samaria.

This whole argument is based on a straw man to begin with.

And the purpose of the thread has been thwarted.

Typical. Oh well, teach me to post anything serious on AFF, right?

lol

Wow bro. This is a serious thread. The purpose has not been thwarted.

Your language of Jesus being guided IMPLIES a certain lack of knowledge on Jesus' behalf in this situation.

I always read that passage as the "GOD-MAN" knowing exactly where to go and who to minister to because He is God, not because the gifts of the Spirit were active in Him and not because He was being led by God IN THE SAME SENSE that we are sometimes led by God.

Jermyn Davidson · #58 01-16-2017, 02:40 AM

John 16:30
The disciples tell Jesus, "you know all things..."

John 21:17
Peter tells Jesus, "Lord, you know all things;"

Esaias and Bro Blume, I love you guys but I need to rest my eyes.

Evang.Benincasa · #59 01-16-2017, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Wow bro. This is a serious thread. The purpose has not been thwarted.

Your language of Jesus being guided IMPLIES a certain lack of knowledge on Jesus' behalf in this situation.

I always read that passage as the "GOD-MAN" knowing exactly where to go and who to minister to because He is God, not because the gifts of the Spirit were active in Him and not because He was being led by God IN THE SAME SENSE that we are sometimes led by God.

That's the conclusion JD comes away from this discussion?

Jesus was sometimes plugged in and other times He was not connected?

Since JD posted John 16:30, John 21:17 he should answer what was the "all things" they knew?

Jermyn Davidson · #60 01-16-2017, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Wow bro. This is a serious thread. The purpose has not been thwarted.

Your language of Jesus being guided IMPLIES a certain lack of knowledge on Jesus' behalf in this situation.

I always read that passage as the "GOD-MAN" knowing exactly where to go and who to minister to because He is God, not because the gifts of the Spirit were active in Him and not because He was being led by God IN THE SAME SENSE that we are sometimes led by God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's the conclusion JD comes away from this discussion?

Jesus was sometimes plugged in and other times He was not connected?

Since JD posted John 16:30, John 21:17 he should answer what was the "all things" they knew?

Cupcake,

I think you have misunderstood me.

*It isn't MY CONCLUSION that sometimes Jesus was plugged in and sometimes He wasn't.

To me, it sounds like Esaias and Bro Blume are saying Jesus Christ performed His ministry and miracles as a sinless man operating in the gifts of the Spirit, apart from His Identity as the Son of God, apart from His Identity as God.

If this is what they are saying, then I find this problematic and incongruent with what I have been taught and believe about our God and Savior.

*There isn't an all things that "THEY KNEW".

The "all things" are references to the disciples confirming their belief that Jesus Christ Himself knows "all things".

The disciples do not qualify their statements and Jesus Christ does not qualify or correct their assertions of Him.