Women Cutting Their Hair, Please Help.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Well, I have no problem following the standards of the UPC even if I know they are sometimes wrong because I want unity in our church. Also, I have no problem trusting those who are older and have more wisdom than me. But it amazes me that people I know who have been to Bible College can't even agree that this passage of scripture might at least be debatable.

Someone close to me is a minister w/UPC. I started talking about the hair subject with him recently. In talking, I brought up the word shorn... had he ever looked up the meaning? Did he realize that it meant cut close to the head? Did he realize that it goes hand in hand w/shaven... think sheep and cutting off all the hair. From the expression on his face, it was clear that he had not. So, I continued talking to him... and I sent him an email stating in detail what I've found in studying. He read it and promised me that he will study it out. He's been really busy right now, been oversees working w/missions, but I know that he will do it because he promised me.

I might be a little predudice, but he is intelligent and is an excellent speaker... he is an awesome preacher and teacher. He really studies the Greek and Hebrew on everything. I was amazed he hadn't ever studied this subject closely. Of course he is a man and hair doesn't really pertain to him all that much. I do know that he once promoted RR and her "power in hair" message and absolutely does not believe that now... and I know that he doesn't believe cutting hair will send you to hell. *sigh of relief*

I am not for a total abandonment of standards.. I just want truth taught.... and nothing more. If it isn't in there for "uncut" then quit teaching that it is.. Quit laying a burden on some women who find it very difficult not to trim and keep their hair neat and groomed.

[SDG]

Brother Eastman,

The rabbinical teachers taught that a nazarite should'nt even comb their hair for fear of cutting it ...

Rashi's commentary, a Jewish bible commentary, states that the command was more than just letting the hair grow long ... but to allow it to GROW WILDLY ...

5. All the days of his vow of abstinence, no razor shall pass over his head; until the completion of the term that he abstains for the sake of the Lord, it shall be sacred, and he shall allow the growth of the hair of his head to grow wild.


it shall be sacred[That is,] his hair; he must let the growth of the hair of his head flourish


growth Heb. פֶּרַע. [The word] is vowelized with a small “pattach” [known as “segol”] because it is [a construct state and] attached to the phrase“the hair of his head.”

[The meaning is:] A growth of hair, and the word פֶּרַע means to allow the hair to grow [wild]. Similarly [we find],“He shall not allow his head to grow freely (לֹא יִפְרָע)” (Lev. 21:10). Any growth [of hair] less than thirty days is not considered פֶּרַע.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Samson was a nazarite from what I understand. A jewish boy will have his head shaved at his Bar-mizvah when he turns 13. A Nazarite would not shave his head if he had a nazarite vow. The story of Samson was that he was not to have a razor to his head, not that he wasn't allowed to cut his hair with shears, there is a difference between allowing a razor to come to your hair, and allowing shears (or scissors) to come to your hair. I hope this helps. see Judges 13:5 It says razor, not shears according to the custom of the Jewish Nazarite vow.

Sorry but what yo said makes no sense to me. How is long hair on a man a shame in one place and not in another. What difference does it makes if he uses a razor or shears? Can a woman use a razor and be okay?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Sam

In the Old Testament both men and women could take a Nazirite vow.
Part of the vow was that they would not cut their hair for a specific period.
This could be as long as a lifetime in the case of Samson (Judges 13:5), Samuel ( 1 Sam. 1:11) and John the Baptist (Luke 1:15), but was (from what I have read) usually just for a month. This is found in Numbers chapter 6. Paul the Apostle practiced this at least once (Acts 18:18) and when he went to Jerusalem (Acts 21:20-27) he sponsored some Jewish brethren in their Nazirite vow by paying for the animal sacrifice for them. So under the Old Testament it was customary for both men and women to cut their hair but they could take a vow and not cut it for a while as an act of consecration.

The "shame for a man to have long hair" and the shaved head for a woman refers to a custom of cross dressing practiced by men and women at that time and in that area as part of heathen sex rituals of a religion practiced at that time.

Okay. Is it a shame for a man to have long hair now aside from culture?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by ILG

Sorry but what yo said makes no sense to me. How is long hair on a man a shame in one place and not in another. What difference does it makes if he uses a razor or shears? Can a woman use a razor and be okay?

BINGO ... the command in Numbers was it was to grow long and wild ....

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

To God everything means something.Its that heart He is looking at.I would never try to suppose what He is thinking.Its not just hair when someone has vowed a vow.Paul vowed a vow and then later shaved when he completed his vow,did God say it was just hair?Sampsons strengh was his uncut hair.Why did his uncut hair give him strength and when it was cut he had none? I am not thinking the magic hair doctrine but I know the word does not lie and that when the hair grew back and his vow was again in place along came the annointing and strength.Guess what? He did not cut his own hair but he did play with his vow and gamble it away as unimportant.So is it just hair to God? I don't know.So because of this I don't veer into areas that I consider the marriage bed of God.The intimate place where promises are made and covenants are born.I would never ever step there.Its not a good thing to under mine anyones dedication or consecrations.God just may like them.I don't dress in a dress to my neck and wear a veil but if my sister does who knows if God doesn't like what she does for him? Some places are sacred places and altars of self sacrifice and dying to self will.I worry about myself and what my sister does or doesn't do is not my concern.I also don't want to be a stumbling
block for anyone.That will anger the Lord for sure.

Good points, Trouvere.

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by ILG

Good points, Trouvere.

Thanks sis.

[becky123abc]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Thanks sis.

I appreciate what you said too Trouvere.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

Someone close to me is a minister w/UPC. I started talking about the hair subject with him recently. In talking, I brought up the word shorn... had he ever looked up the meaning? Did he realize that it meant cut close to the head? Did he realize that it goes hand in hand w/shaven... think sheep and cutting off all the hair. From the expression on his face, it was clear that he had not. So, I continued talking to him... and I sent him an email stating in detail what I've found in studying. He read it and promised me that he will study it out. He's been really busy right now, been oversees working w/missions, but I know that he will do it because he promised me.

I might be a little predudice, but he is intelligent and is an excellent speaker... he is an awesome preacher and teacher. He really studies the Greek and Hebrew on everything. I was amazed he hadn't ever studied this subject closely. Of course he is a man and hair doesn't really pertain to him all that much. I do know that he once promoted RR and her "power in hair" message and absolutely does not believe that now... and I know that he doesn't believe cutting hair will send you to hell. *sigh of relief*

I am not for a total abandonment of standards.. I just want truth taught.... and nothing more. If it isn't in there for "uncut" then quit teaching that it is.. Quit laying a burden on some women who find it very difficult not to trim and keep their hair neat and groomed.

This is how I feel as well.

[mfblume]

Here's a conundrum for some:

WOMEN took the Nazarite vow and had to shave their heads after it was over:

Num 6:2 KJV Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD:

Num 6:5 KJV All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.

Num 6:9 KJV And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it.