Brother Irvin Baxter Jr Endtime Magazine

[shag]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sorry, folks, but when I read Jesus say that everything he listed would take place in a single generation, and one of the items on the list was the destruction of the temple they looked at that day, it's pretty plain to me. And in comparison of all synoptic gospels, the Sign of His coming was plainly the sign when the temple would be destroyed. And with NOT ONE SINGLE reference to a future coming from our day's perspective in the entire Gospel of Matthew before chapter 24, with references to His coming in their day at the end of Matt 16 and references to AD70 destruction in Matt 21 where he asked what God would do when he "comes" to the vineyard, followed by acknowledgment that the Pharisees knew He spoke of THEM in that coming, it's so plainly biblically evident that I don;t need history. That does IN NO WAY say history contradicts the belief but I believe it anyway. I am simply saying the scriptures are too plain to have to require history as well.

About 10-12 yrs ago, I ran across the "some standing here' passage. I was unsure of the answer, so I asked what was then our senior pastor. He joked and said "theyre getting to be a ripe ol' age aint they'. Obvisously unsure the answer. Then, we had a visiting minister (aka 'the walking bible"), I asked him the same thing, he said Pentecost. I nvr argued, but w some study for obvious reasons per the recent thread, I didn't buy it.
I began recognizing the fact that Jesus basically only spoke of "The Kingdom", so I started studying that.
One night I woke up about 2:30am and yelled out "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand!".
Freaked my wife plum out, she was ready to be "caught up"!
Then I started studying John the Baptist the forerunner, and only HE alone was the voice crying in the wilderness, not us, as that song goes"behold he comes", then I started studying "behold he comes...with clouds.
Then came "this generation will not pass away till....
So if he didn't mean what he said plainly, then what was the purpose for saying it at all?! Just like what in the world is the purpose for all the timing statements, if they mean nothing at all, zilch, zero, because theres a verse that supposedly voids ANY and ALL time relevant scriptures by saying" a day to the lord whatever... That's foolishness IMO to think that.

Anyway, u get the picture, one thing, then another ....
Little off the thread title, but I thought I'd share it anyway...
my grandma went to her grave last year, and she was a hardcore IB endtime magazine reader for years. My senior pastor I mentioned above, still teaches his videos too.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Two can play with that logic of a point.

This manner of logic can be answered with a simple point... let's say futurism is not true. Futurists will forever be saying, "That did not pan out, but it's not over yet. It will come someday..." and can never be convinced otherwise.

When the Catholics were massacring protestants in the middle ages, that was real then and they were alive then, too. But it was not what the bible foretold, though you could not convince sme of the people of the time about that.

You are correct. I'm not contesting that at all. I've leaned Preterist for a long time. However, as events began to unfold and I began studying Islam and the global goal of these extremists who are whipping up a frenzy throughout the Muslim world I began to see that they are dedicated to fulfilling the very prophecies Futurism warns us about. A friend of mine is an unbeliever, and he was shaking his head the other day saying, "This is different. Every enemy we've faced has been political. These guys think they are pleasing God by killing us. And they're willing to die, or kill the entire planet, to do it. Chris, I think this could be the end." Then it hit me...

John 16:2 (ESV)
They will put you out of the synagogues. Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God.

I thought, "Out of the mouths of babes."

My point isn't that futurism is correct, I mean, people can believe as the wish and there are great points on both sides. However, my point is... we have a religious radicalization that has the entire planet on red alert. All other futurist theories in the past have suggested that the coming Antichrist is secretly planning his world domination and genocidal tidal wave against Jews and Christians, centering his empire in Jerusalem. This enemy that has the entire world on red alert is unique. We don't have to speculate that they might be "secretly conspiring" to do this. They are open and in our faces about it. They are dedicated to it. And they will destroy themselves for the glory of Allah to accomplish it.

We've NEVER faced this kind of global threat. And we've NEVER had this kind of enemy as it relates to prophetic considerations.

So, this interpretation is very different from interpretations in the past. This suspect proudly confesses to these goals and swears by their God that they will fulfill these goals. No secret conspiracy here. A bold and in your face antichrist agenda.

[Michael The Disciple]

We've NEVER faced this kind of global threat. And we've NEVER had this kind of enemy as it relates to prophetic considerations.

The Russians and Chinese are quite able to obliterate America in one hour. Who will be the man of sin? I dont know but he will not be an American.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

For this to be true, and I've said it before... God expects us to understanding prophecy correctly by reading the Koran. Sorry, but that's bad fruit that exposes the whole concept's error.

You would not KNOW or conceive such a thing had you not researched false doctrine texts. So, the one who has understanding, according to Revelation 13, so that one can count the number of the beast requires knowledge of the Koran. That proves it's error to me.

Again, that's not the point. Let's assume that Futurism is right. Do we think that the Beast will rise to global influence overnight? Do we think that this cult of the Antichrist would be birthed and spread globally overnight? Theories always assumed that Gorby or the EU was secretly planning this take over along with a massive brainwashing campaign assisted by evil spirits. We always failed to see how "religion" would play in a Revived Roman Empire in Europe, a content that is mostly secular. So we equated "worship" with atheism and denial of God.

I don't believe that any future Beast will rise to global power overnight. Nor do I think that a future Antichrist could just gain followers all over the globe overnight. Nope... some ground work would have had to be laid. Something influencing the hearts and minds of at least a billion people. We've speculated. Could it be Communism? Corporatism? Socialism? Militant Atheism? Catholicism? Satanism? Occultism (Illuminati theories)? No one really paid a attention to this socially backward and antiquated tradition known as... Islam.

Now, the prophecies fulfilled in the OT were not always fulfilled with the full understanding of those experiencing them. Yes, the alert, prayerful, and dedicated were watching and properly interpreted the prophetic significance of various events, even centuries after the prophecies were spoken. But no one knew for certain that the leopard like beast would be Greece or that the ten headed Iron beast would be Rome. As these nations rose to power... it was the spiritually in tune who understood that the prophecies were indeed being fulfilled by these powers.

So, with Islam becoming a major force in the world and within so many Western cultures... naturally a deeper study of it has started. I had studied out their monotheism, their prayers, their five pillars, etc. But I had never studied their notion of "prophecy". As I began to research the topic... I discovered that ironically... they have the very same structure to their future prophetic events as we do... only the roles are reversed. Where we see the Antichrist taking Jerusalem and subjugating the world... they see their al Mahdi (Guided One) taking over Jerusalem and subjugating the world. We see two witnesses functioning as prophets of God in Israel, resisting the Antichrist until they are martyred. They see a Jewish revolt led by the Dajjal (their version of an antichrist figure)... the Dajjal finally being killed and left to rot in the streets. We see the Antichrist laying waste to entire nations to destroy Christianity and to subjugate the world to himself. They see the al Mahdi laying waste to nations to bring in justice and global submission to Allah.

What is so unique about this is... it was a discovery of a belief and expectation they've had for over a thousand years. This isn't some speculative theory I thought up while watching the Scifi channel last night. And regardless as to if one believes in Futurism or not... their religious foundations essentially command that they prepare and live in an expectancy to force these things to happen.

One doesn't need this knowledge from the Quaran or the Hadiths. Any futurist witnessing the rise of an al Mahdi figure would give it a second look. Then... should he conquer Jerusalem and declare the establishment of the final Caliphate at the Al Asqa mosque with offerings to Allah... with Jews fleeing by the millions... every Futurist's blood would run cold. Witnessing him conquer Egypt and bring resisting Islamic nations under his authority would be all the buzz. His use of WMDs to bring the West to it's knees... and his use of controlling so much of the world's oil would cause global terror. And then... his marking of his followers and converts to ensure that the infidels and apostates are quickly identified would cause any Futurist in their right mind to say... "This is it folks. It wasn't the Illuminati... it was Islam!"

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Like I said, the parallels exist for a reason. Anyway, for brother Blume... I would say the persecutions of the medieval and early modern period are very much found in prophecy.

But back to the Mahdi. I remember two decades ago it was Maitreya. Almost a BILLION Hindus plus several million New Agers all looking for Maitreya... who eould be considered God incarnate, would correct all religions, solve the mid east peace crisis, initiate an end to wealth inequality, end wars by establishing one united global government, one united economy, and one united religion. Almost a BILLION people looking for this guy.

Now that Islam is the political distraction provided for the West as designed, it's the Mahdi.

The futurist antichrist cannot be the "Mahdi" for the following reasons:

1. Futurism's concept of a singular, personal Antichrist at the end of days just prior to the Second Advent is error. If futurism is itself unscriptural error, then ANY prediction it makes about a supposed Antichrist must of necessity be error also.

2. But let's assume futurism is correct as a scheme of interpretation. The Mahdi still could not be the "Antichrist". According to futurism's interpretation if Daniel, the Antichrist will honour a god unknown to his ancestors. If the Mahdi honoured any god other than Allah, every Muslim would immediately rebel against him and his support base would evaporate overnight.

3. The Mahdi will supposedly impose Islam on the world. If he imposes anything BUT Islam, every Muslim would go into jihadi mode against him. The Mahdi would have no support and would BY DEFINITION not be al-Mahdi. So he must be Islamic and must bring the world into Islam. But who in the west would ever accept Islam? The Antichrist will supposedly lull the ENTIRE WORLD into submission and adoration. But if the Antichrist is Muslim imposing Islam BY LAW AND BY FORCE then NOBODY EXCEPT MUSLIMS would ever follow him. Which means the Antichrist would be nothing more than a jihadi Caliph waging war on the west - something we have been through SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE ALREADY. Crusades, anyone? Kosovo, Ordo Draconis, Templars? The Antichrist prophecies would have ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED hundreds of years ago!

4. Now we have the suggestion being made that the Mahdi in the al-Aqsa mosque is the man of sin in the temple of God. Need this be debunked? Seriously? The al-Aqsa mosque is the Temple of God? This is so obviously ridiculous as to not need a response other than to affirm "temple of YHVH" and Muslim mosque are NOT the same thing. Anyone who thinks otherwise is beyond help.

Now, no question the Mahdi myth is being manipulated by certain elements. ISIS for example? ISIS, a western creation and tool, is no more representative of general Islam than the Arabs were under Sir Lawrence. Oh wait... how many even know who "Lawrence of Arabia" was, and what his mission was? You know, the British military and intelligence specialist tasked with creating an Arabic (Muslim) "freedom fighter" outfit to destabilize the Arabian peninsula as part of Britain's protracted war against the Ottoman Empire... "wahabbi" anyone? Kind of like when the USA financed and set up an Arabic-run "freedom fighter" force to destabilize Afghanistan in a proxy war against the Soviets... that force being known as "al-Qaeda" and run by CIA contact Usama bin Laden of Saudi Arabia.

We live in days of deception. Futurism, sadly, is PART OF THE DECEPTION.

Excellent example...

I remember two decades ago it was Maitreya.

Yes... but... did Maitreya and his followers promise to lead the entire Hindu world in a war to destroy Israel and establish a final empire centered in Jerusalem that would decidedly behead Christians and Jews??? Was he proudly stating this agenda on international television???

Nope. I'm just saying... this is a unique enemy... and a unique circumstance as it relates to beliefs about prophecy.

I'll share my thoughts with each of your points above in a little while.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Like I said, the parallels exist for a reason. Anyway, for brother Blume... I would say the persecutions of the medieval and early modern period are very much found in prophecy.

But back to the Mahdi. I remember two decades ago it was Maitreya. Almost a BILLION Hindus plus several million New Agers all looking for Maitreya... who eould be considered God incarnate, would correct all religions, solve the mid east peace crisis, initiate an end to wealth inequality, end wars by establishing one united global government, one united economy, and one united religion. Almost a BILLION people looking for this guy.

Please remember... Islam comes with a built in social and economic structure.

Now that Islam is the political distraction provided for the West as designed, it's the Mahdi.

The futurist antichrist cannot be the "Mahdi" for the following reasons:

You make good points, I'll share my thoughts.

1. Futurism's concept of a singular, personal Antichrist at the end of days just prior to the Second Advent is error. If futurism is itself unscriptural error, then ANY prediction it makes about a supposed Antichrist must of necessity be error also.

But Preterism's equating Nero and Rome to being the Beast isn't???

2. But let's assume futurism is correct as a scheme of interpretation. The Mahdi still could not be the "Antichrist". According to futurism's interpretation if Daniel, the Antichrist will honour a god unknown to his ancestors. If the Mahdi honoured any god other than Allah, every Muslim would immediately rebel against him and his support base would evaporate overnight.

You're right. Consider this...

An al Mahdi figure would of course profess to be Islamic. Of course, his not actually being the "al Mahdi" but rather an opportunistic imposter could be revealed at some point during his reign. In what seemed like a currently successful advance of Islamic prophecy... he is suddenly exposed for being an imposter. This could be the moment when he demands to be worshipped as God. This could cause his "Caliphate" (Beast) to divide, the ten kings turning on him. Suddenly, with glory almost in his grasp... it falls apart on account of his arrogance and pride. And with those few devotees who do not deny him, he prepares for Armageddon.

Remember, while Islamic prophetic vision is a tool the Antichrist will use as he poses as the al Mahdi... towards the end... biblical prophecy is what is actually being fulfilled.

3. The Mahdi will supposedly impose Islam on the world. If he imposes anything BUT Islam, every Muslim would go into jihadi mode against him. The Mahdi would have no support and would BY DEFINITION not be al-Mahdi. So he must be Islamic and must bring the world into Islam. But who in the west would ever accept Islam? The Antichrist will supposedly lull the ENTIRE WORLD into submission and adoration. But if the Antichrist is Muslim imposing Islam BY LAW AND BY FORCE then NOBODY EXCEPT MUSLIMS would ever follow him. Which means the Antichrist would be nothing more than a jihadi Caliph waging war on the west - something we have been through SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE ALREADY. Crusades, anyone? Kosovo, Ordo Draconis, Templars? The Antichrist prophecies would have ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED hundreds of years ago!

At this time, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the United States. More Americans are converting to Islam daily. Imams are touting that by 2030 there will be such a sizeable Muslim constituency that they plan to have political clout in American government, equal to the Christian right. Europe is already feeling the Muslim populations within it's boarders influencing it's policies and politics. So, there are many Americans who would indeed embrace an al Mahdi figure.

Take into consideration that the al Mahdi not only conquers Israel, but Muslim nations that will not surrender to him. How? Through conversion. Imagine more Westernized Muslim nations facing insurrection and extremists until their governments and destabilized and they fall. Also, imagine that this al Mahdi figure conquers Israel and levels a hand full of American cities, bringing our nation to its knees. Imagine as radicals begin to preach their Islam in our streets and command that the al Mahdi be reverenced. The al Mahdi will control significant supplies of the world's oil. He can grind a nation's economy to a near halt. Imagine a world being held hostage by this Middle Eastern Caliphate and it's alliance with Russia and the extremists who will gain control of Europe.

There is something interesting in Islam. It is called the Jizya. It is a religious tax for non-believers who submit to Islamic rule. Historically, Islamic regimes have imposed the Jizya on Jews and Christians. In Egypt... they marked Coptic Christians on their right hands to designate that they were submitted to Islamic rule. This was done in India and Central Asia as well as Islam advanced. Thus, their system has a built in doctrine that has historically been associated with some form of "mark" or "designation" for those who will simply... submit.

Now, according to Islam, at some point the al Mahdi will abolish the Jizya and begin slaughtering all who do not convert to give glory to Allah. So, the benefits of participating with the Jizya will be short lived.

4. Now we have the suggestion being made that the Mahdi in the al-Aqsa mosque is the man of sin in the temple of God. Need this be debunked? Seriously? The al-Aqsa mosque is the Temple of God? This is so obviously ridiculous as to not need a response other than to affirm "temple of YHVH" and Muslim mosque are NOT the same thing. Anyone who thinks otherwise is beyond help.

If one is dogmatic, I see your point. But... although it is in ruins... the Temple of YHVH is still there. And the Al Aqsa Mosque does reside on the very grounds of the Temple. Although, the Temple is in ruins... this is still the Temple. And the mosque is on its grounds. Essentially, it's "in the Temple", upon it's ruins.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-uBMSWrlnwo...00/al_aqsa.jpg

Now, no question the Mahdi myth is being manipulated by certain elements. ISIS for example? ISIS, a western creation and tool, is no more representative of general Islam than the Arabs were under Sir Lawrence. Oh wait... how many even know who "Lawrence of Arabia" was, and what his mission was? You know, the British military and intelligence specialist tasked with creating an Arabic (Muslim) "freedom fighter" outfit to destabilize the Arabian peninsula as part of Britain's protracted war against the Ottoman Empire... "wahabbi" anyone? Kind of like when the USA financed and set up an Arabic-run "freedom fighter" force to destabilize Afghanistan in a proxy war against the Soviets... that force being known as "al-Qaeda" and run by CIA contact Usama bin Laden of Saudi Arabia.

I agree... it's a myth that will be used to manipulate billions of people.

We live in days of deception. Futurism, sadly, is PART OF THE DECEPTION.

That's only an opinion based on one interpretation.

I believe prophecy is more dynamic. But that's a different subject.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Than I'll buy you a steak.

I'll throw on my welding mask because the nuclear flash has been know to burn the retinas right out of the eyes. Israelis have been chafing at the bit to use their nuclear weapons. Oh I forgot they aren't supposed to have nuclear weapons. Anyway, the United States would be more than happy to incinerate anyone marching towards Tel Aviv.

Not with someone like Obama as President. Also, what if those with the agenda to destroy Israel didn't begin until the United States was reeling like a drunkard as a result of a nuclear attack? Imagine a city like New York being leveled in a nuclear explosion. We'd not know the origin of the attack. We'd be trying to rescue as many as possible. The markets would be crashing. Chaos would abound. We'd not know who did it. And even if we saw Muslim nations descending on Israel... we'd not really know if it were this Islamic front that attacked us. Surely, they could just be taking opportunity to strike Israel... while we're still trying to find out who was behind the attack on us. It would be a disaster.

Also, I have friends who live in Israel. Israel isn't chomping at the bit to use nuclear weapons. Remember, they aren't Americans. If we nuke a country, it's on the other side of the world. If Israel nukes a Muslim nation... you do realize, they would be dropping nukes right next door. They DON'T want to do this under any circumstance. And doing so would require a massive evacuation and refugee effort to save the Jewish nation from potential fallout. Ohio wouldn't drop a series of nukes on Indiana.

Then you will get to see the Caliphate hung upside down from Cypress trees, while a man with a CAT hat, overalls, and chawing REDMAN is asking his friends Boudreaux and Thibodeaux, to take a picture of him standing by the victims armed with his AK 47.

lol No comment. lol

No, the Preterists will be saying that you all can buy property cheap is the Middle East, and gas is now 0.50 a gallon, because there is nothing left of the Mahdi and his bros but a faint shadowed outline left by the AN602 hydrogen bomb dropped on them.

I don't think you realize it wouldn't be that clear or easy.

Funny? When I was young, and in school, they had bomb drills which they would make us duck and cover under our school desks. Back then it was the Red Menace take your pick USSR, or Communist China. Both were supposedly bearing down on us, and we would hear warning sirens on television stations telling us in case of an emergency we would be warned where to get shelter. A movie called "the day after" scared all who watched in in the USA, and a movie called "Threads" flipped out all who watched it in the UK. I said all that to say this, every Empire has a boogie man, and if the boogie man gets too real the Empire goes out and places a bullet smack dab between his eyes.

Yes... but if this boogie man strikes first... I don't think you realize the ramifications. We'd not know it was him until well after his forces conquered Jerusalem. And even then, we might not know for certain.

I don't make these rules, but there is money to be made, and if a one world leader comes around and tries to grab all the cookies for himself, Then the rest of the kids are going to upset and place cyanide into his little milk carton.

No one said he'd be successful. Only that he'd try to fulfill the prophecies of Islam... which mirror what Christian Futurism warns us about. Of course he's going to fail.

Same devil, different dress. You aren't the first one to blow your horn and scream the sky is falling. You have a long list of individuals who had picked out world leaders to be the Antichrist. Napoleon, Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, Barack Obama, and (I don't know how they will do it, but someone will figure something out) Hillary Clinton?

Again, that's not my point. lol I'm not screaming the sky is falling. I'm simply saying that Islam expects to not only see these events... but they are commanded in their holy writings to FULFILL them, to act and make it happen. And so... we have a religion with growing radicalization designed to DO what Futurists have warned about. And the only thing that can stop it from happening would be to convert ever Muslim on the planet... or ... rewrite over a thousand years of Islamic eschatology.

Of course, I don't know for certain if this is the Beast of the last days. My point is... we've NEVER seen this kind of enemy or potential player on the stage of prophecy.

We have always had bad guys, and bad guys have bad things happen to them. The United States of America has plans for their elite, and if anyone comes along riding a camel, and pointing an RPG at anyone... then someone will be more than pleased to saturate bomb their position.

lol

I would hate to see these things happen, and know that it would bring death instead of life. Pray Aquila that what you are proposing never comes to pass, that my children, and Muslim children get a chance to grow up and have families of their own.

I do pray that this never happens. Here's something our pastor showed us in church several years ago:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-uBMSWrlnwo...00/al_aqsa.jpg

It is sad that the word Apocalypse is equated to destruction, and death, because it isn't about that, it is about revealing, an appearance, a revelation.

A revelation of Jesus and His Bride.

The goal is to be spiritually, mentally, and physically prepared as one can be within the bounds of common sense.

[Aquila]

Remember, Jesus didn't know the day and/or hour of His own return. It stands to reason that He'd warn His immediate audience.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Funny? When I was young, and in school, they had bomb drills which they would make us duck and cover under our school desks. Back then it was the Red Menace take your pick USSR, or Communist China. Both were supposedly bearing down on us, and we would hear warning sirens on television stations telling us in case of an emergency we would be warned where to get shelter. A movie called "the day after" scared all who watched in in the USA, and a movie called "Threads" flipped out all who watched it in the UK. I said all that to say this, every Empire has a boogie man, and if the boogie man gets too real the Empire goes out and places a bullet smack dab between his eyes.

I don't make these rules, but there is money to be made, and if a one world leader comes around and tries to grab all the cookies for himself, Then the rest of the kids are going to upset and place cyanide into his little milk carton.

America’s Strategy Deficit
A haphazard foreign policy makes a complicated world more dangerous.

No one thinks this administration is the A Team when it comes to foreign affairs, but this is unprecedented push-back from top military and intelligence players. They are fed up, they’re less afraid, they’re retired, and they’re speaking out. We are going to be seeing more of this kind of criticism, not less.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/americas...cit-1422573879

[Aquila]

Interesting quote by Gen. Martin Dempsey back in 2014...

Joint Chiefs chairman opens door to US boots on ground in ISIS fight
foxnews.com

A very eerie statement made by America's top-ranked military officer Army Gen. Martin Dempsey while discussing ISIS:

"This is an organization that has an apocalyptic, end-of-days strategic vision and which will eventually have to be defeated,"

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...ground-in-isis...

I have a feeling this is only the beginning...