Biblical Contradiction?

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Siblings giving in marriage is proven to be a failed attempt to populate. Mental retardation, physical deformation, and other symptoms are the result of this behaviour, no matter what culture you belong to. If God intended for this action to be justified, there would not be this type of breakdown.

This is what I meant about Solomon and his actions. No matter his culture, his practice of multiple wives, concubines, being unequally yoked, all these corrupt the basic network of a strong family.

Being the husband of one wife is God's basic plan, and today we see clearly why this is important. I don't care if you claim to author Scripture, sit on a throne, live in the ghetto, are rich and famous, to step out of the perimeters of this scientific and moral guideline, leads all to lies and deceit.

My theory on why earlier generations were able to "side step" this genetic weakness lies in the purity of their genetic make-up. As the human population expanded, variance in genes became essential to perpetuate the healthiness of our offspring. That is why "expanding the gene pool" is a good thing. Weaknesses or gaps in a partner's genetic make-up may be compensated by healthy, hardier genes in the other person. Genetic diversity makes flaws in each other's DNA more difficult to line up.

I believe you are right on with the rest of this post. I don't believe God condoned Solomon's practices, in fact, I don't believe God wanted Israel to bow to another king from the beginning! 1 Samuel 8:7.

[Godsdrummer]

I understand What both MB and NFS are both saying, But one does have to understand the that the culture of the time did in fact allow for mutiple wive to a certain degree in the area of leading men like kings etc. And no God did not smile on this. Remember though OT is and was given for examples to man today. Soloman gets his wise answers from his experiances thus the books written by him are accepted because he experianced those things and found their fault Ecclesiastes is a good example of this. Some times who better to give advice than one who has been there done that. As for hell it is my understanding maybe Im wrong but everything in OT was to Christ and the cross. And Jesus went to hades the abode of the dead and preached to them and gave all the opportunity to receive his measage. To me it is all about realtionship with God. Salvation is just the door to relationship with God. IMPO we make too much out of Salvation and not enough about beyond salvation other than to stay saved.

God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself why? Just to get us saved? It must go beyond that, and not just in the life to come, but in this life.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Please, brother, if you claim I'm in error, explain yourself. You only confuse people who are looking for solid answers. This is the problem with Churches today. Just submit. Just obey. Don't ask. Just believe. That's what you're saying. A shallow, empty concept you have embraced, which leads enitre societies and peoples to dead faith and false doctrine.

To be fair, certain churches aren't the only ones in the subjugation business, we must also include secularists, skeptics, and athiests.

Also, to claim that the Bible is only "man's book," well, I would start by challenging you to reconcile the list of fulfilled prophecies found exclusively in the scriptures with this assertion.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

To be fair, certain churches aren't the only ones in the subjugation business, we must also include secularists, skeptics, and athiests.

Also, to claim that the Bible is only "man's book," well, I would start by challenging you to reconcile the list of fulfilled prophecies found exclusively in the scriptures with this assertion.

I'm not an expert in prophecy, but I do know this. I have never seen so much error in the last 30 years of people (preachers and saints) who have made a claim (prediction), based on Scriptural "assertion", that were flat wrong. We are not talking about fly-by-night people, we are talking about highly respected teachers in doctrine and theology. This has caused many in our movement to lose faith in our "Prophets" and to look elsewhere for truth.

People have sliced, diced, and gone a million different directions with the Book of Revelation. Sooner or later, when someone hits a bulls eye (at least we think its a bulls eye), we stake it as truth, forgetting about all those who fell on thier faces by confusing a million people.

People swore Hilter was the Anti-Christ. 89 reasons Jesus is coming back in 1989. The interpretation of a "Generation". Y2K. The Red Hefier. Pre Trib, Mid Trib, Post Trib. The Abomonation that maketh Desolation. I could go on and on.

There are also scores of other books by authors who've written about the future and have been accurate. An Apocolypse, or "End of the World", is predicted by many faiths and beliefs and has been talked about for 1000's of years.

I don't want to make light of what the Bible says, but everything I've said in here is the truth. I want truth, not lies. According to the Bible, we are to mark a man as a "False Prophet" if his prophecy fails. Instead, we make all kinds of excuses of why they were wrong.

Oh well, Religion in its finest hour! Cover anything that threatens our beliefs.

[NotforSale]

By the way, sorry, it was 88 reasons Jesus is coming in 1988. My wife corrected me (she's good at that).

My previous pastor used to say, "There is very thin line between revelation and imagination".

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I'm not an expert in prophecy, but I do know this. I have never seen so much error in the last 30 years of people (preachers and saints) who have made a claim (prediction), based on Scriptural "assertion", that were flat wrong. We are not talking about fly-by-night people, we are talking about highly respected teachers in doctrine and theology. This has caused many in our movement to lose faith in our "Prophets" and to look elsewhere for truth.

People have sliced, diced, and gone a million different directions with the Book of Revelation. Sooner or later, when someone hits a bulls eye (at least we think its a bulls eye), we stake it as truth, forgetting about all those who fell on thier faces by confusing a million people.

People swore Hilter was the Anti-Christ. 89 reasons Jesus is coming back in 1989. The interpretation of a "Generation". Y2K. The Red Hefier. Pre Trib, Mid Trib, Post Trib. The Abomonation that maketh Desolation. I could go on and on.

There are also scores of other books by authors who've written about the future and have been accurate. An Apocolypse, or "End of the World", is predicted by many faiths and beliefs and has been talked about for 1000's of years.

I don't want to make light of what the Bible says, but everything I've said in here is the truth. I want truth, not lies. According to the Bible, we are to mark a man as a "False Prophet" if his prophecy fails. Instead, we make all kinds of excuses of why they were wrong.

Oh well, Religion in its finest hour! Cover anything that threatens our beliefs.

You present a very eloquent straw man argument. I am not disputing the damage and confusion that has been propagated by so called "prophets of God." No argument from me there. But I would like to direct your attention back to your assertion that the Bible is a book of man. You followed that up with the bolded quote above.

What exactly is your position on the authenticity of the Bible?

Do you acknowledge the hundreds of prophecies that have come to pass just as the authors in the Bible predicted?

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

You present a very eloquent straw man argument. I am not disputing the damage and confusion that has been propagated by so called "prophets of God." No argument from me there. But I would like to direct your attention back to your assertion that the Bible is a book of man. You followed that up with the bolded quote above.

What exactly is your position on the authenticity of the Bible?

Do you acknowledge the hundreds of prophecies that have come to pass just as the authors in the Bible predicted?

Is the Bible not a book of Man? Who wrote it? Just because someone says God inspired it, doesn't mean it is.

To be honest, I feel the Bible we have today is full of error and has been greatly influenced by the Catholic Church and other pagan societies. I also feel, blind trust in any book is dangerous. We must ask the hard pressed questions to revive accountability and to put elders in the hot seat. Look at the Catholic Church. Priests molested an untold number of children, and were protected by the "Church". These men were teachers, leaders, and were considered holy. And, the main problem with this is, the people were drowning in ignorance! Told to SUBMIT! Keep thier mouths shut!

Our argument has been, "Well, we have the truth! We don't do what the Catholic Church does!" This is a bold face LIE! Divorce, sexual sin, Internet porn, you name it, it's in our Apostolic churches, big time.

Remember, the King James Version is CATHOLIC!! They've used this version since its inception, and still do. We use thier Bible, and we are following them whether we like it or not. Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Sunday Church, Ministerial Government, we get it all from them.

I think the Bible is important, but is proven beyond doubt to carry flaw. The reason is simple; Man wrote it. Man interprets it. Man tries to live by it. Man is political.

Brother, there is so much to all of this. "Thou shalt not kill". Why is there so much murder in the Bible? Jesus said, "Love your enemies", not KILL them. Jesus also said if we don't forgive men thier trespasses, God won't forgive ours. Why do we hate, kill, and maim the innocent, all in the name of Christianity? Does this promote forgiveness or does it incite revenge? Jesus said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

As far as prophecies are concerned, we can "force fit". We can do just what they do today. Keep predicting until they are right (at least what they think is right).

Brother, this is not a "Straw Man" argument. These are the facts, and they challenge our entire foundation. This strikes fear in all of us, but never the less, we must pursue the moral compass God placed in every man to FIND HIM! A Creator does not make His Being without the HUNGER to find his Maker. We will migrate back to the True and Living God when we shed the vain traditions of dry, dead, boring, law infested religion.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Is the Bible not a book of Man? Who wrote it? Just because someone says God inspired it, doesn't mean it is.

To be honest, I feel the Bible we have today is full of error and has been greatly influenced by the Catholic Church and other pagan societies. I also feel, blind trust in any book is dangerous. We must ask the hard pressed questions to revive accountability and to put elders in the hot seat. Look at the Catholic Church. Priests molested an untold number of children, and were protected by the "Church". These men were teachers, leaders, and were considered holy. And, the main problem with this is, the people were drowning in ignorance! Told to SUBMIT! Keep thier mouths shut!

Our argument has been, "Well, we have the truth! We don't do what the Catholic Church does!" This is a bold face LIE! Divorce, sexual sin, Internet porn, you name it, it's in our Apostolic churches, big time.

Remember, the King James Version is CATHOLIC!! They've used this version since its inception, and still do. We use thier Bible, and we are following them whether we like it or not. Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Sunday Church, Ministerial Government, we get it all from them.

I think the Bible is important, but is proven beyond doubt to carry flaw. The reason is simple; Man wrote it. Man interprets it. Man tries to live by it. Man is political.

Brother, there is so much to all of this. "Thou shalt not kill". Why is there so much murder in the Bible? Jesus said, "Love your enemies", not KILL them. Jesus also said if we don't forgive men thier trespasses, God won't forgive ours. Why do we hate, kill, and maim the innocent, all in the name of Christianity? Does this promote forgiveness or does it incite revenge? Jesus said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
As far as prophecies are concerned, we can "force fit". We can do just what they do today. Keep predicting until they are right (at least what they think is right).

Brother, this is not a "Straw Man" argument. These are the facts, and they challenge our entire foundation. This strikes fear in all of us, but never the less, we must pursue the moral compass God placed in every man to FIND HIM! A Creator does not make His Being without the HUNGER to find his Maker. We will migrate back to the True and Living God when we shed the vain traditions of dry, dead, boring, law infested religion.

The pages of the Bible have passed through the fingertips of the most brilliant men to ever walk this Earth, and the overall consensus among them is in favor of the scripture being the authority that it declares to be. Please indulge me by reading their opinions:

http://www.why-the-bible.com/bible.htm

Could you give some examples of these flaws in the Bible? Many of the presumed contradictions that you present (bolded) are in fact not biblical contradictions at all. And concerning biblical prophecies, are you aware that Jesus fulfilled perhaps over 300!?! That is statistically impossible, my friend. How did these mere men get it right?

You stand in a curious position, as if you can remove yourself and critique the Bible from a vacuum. How is it that we need enlightenment, but you are able to see through it all? C.S. Lewis wrote in The Abolition of Man:

But you cannot go on "exlpaining away" for ever: you will find that you have explained explanation itself away. You cannot go on "seeing through" things for ever. The whole point of seeing through something is to see something through it. It is good that the window should be transparent, because the street or garden beyond it is opaque. How if you saw through the garden too?...a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To "see through" all things is the same as not to see.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

The pages of the Bible have passed through the fingertips of the most brilliant men to ever walk this Earth, and the overall consensus among them is in favor of the scripture being the authority that it declares to be. Please indulge me by reading their opinions:

http://www.why-the-bible.com/bible.htm

Could you give some examples of these flaws in the Bible? Many of the presumed contradictions that you present (bolded) are in fact not biblical contradictions at all. And concerning biblical prophecies, are you aware that Jesus fulfilled perhaps over 300!?! That is statistically impossible, my friend. How did these mere men get it right?

You stand in a curious position, as if you can remove yourself and critique the Bible from a vacuum. How is it that we need enlightenment, but you are able to see through it all? C.S. Lewis wrote in The Abolition of Man:

But you cannot go on "exlpaining away" for ever: you will find that you have explained explanation itself away. You cannot go on "seeing through" things for ever. The whole point of seeing through something is to see something through it. It is good that the window should be transparent, because the street or garden beyond it is opaque. How if you saw through the garden too?...a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To "see through" all things is the same as not to see.

What's so interesting about your response is, you do the same thing others do when giving an answer; you don't give an answer. If my comments about "Killing" are inaccurate, you don't say why or how. Same with unforgiveness, revenge, and loving our enemies. The Old Testament is full of bloodshed and unmerciful killing. Why did God change from the Old to the New? You know why, because MAN wrote the book, and we make "IT" fit our fancy. We will kill because we find a way to justify it.

And, if you are so sure about yourself, and the Bible is so clear about all these complex issues, why are there over 1000 denominations in this Country? Who's right, and who's wrong? The Bible does not bring unity, it causes division, and the reason is simple; MAN wrote it. Arguing over Scripture has been around since it was created. Debate, debate, debate.

How do you know that these men of the past were brillant? Did you know them? Did you speak with them? Do you know thier personal lives as a neighbor? Are you relying on past records or artifacts that could have been easily manipulated by people who are protecting a political or moral stance not held by the Almighty?

Friend, we came to this Land centuries ago and annihalated the Indian culture in the name of Christianity. We brought disease, ripped these people away from the land that they loved and respected, and massacered tribe after tribe with "Gods Love". We claim our Nation as being born upon the Foundation of Scripture, yet we discover our intention upon humanity was brutal and dark. Same with slavery.

You also don't address the Catholic influence upon the Bible we have today. The King James Bible was produced/translated by 47 Scholars who were slanted towards Catholisism, not to mention, England was basically a Catholic country.

And, if what you say is so "solid" about prophecy concerning Jesus Christ, why do the Jews still believe he's NOT the Messiah? With 300 inevitable, undisputed, and EASY to understand prophecies, everyone should feel like you.

I don't know how entrenched you are with the Apostolic Church, but I've been pastoring for almost 13 years, and was brought into this movement back in the 70's. When I became a minister, my eyes were opened to the fallable ways of our "Religion", and I see clearly how we protect those who bring in the numbers. We've become a political machine, motivated by forces that are not Holy. "United" in our name means nothing. Brotherly love is lip service. We take the Scriptures that "FIT", and ignore the rest. It won't be long, Brother, and our mold won't be any different than all the other religions that pound the fist of, WE ARE "RIGHT".

I want to know the True and Living God. The One who created man for His pleasure. The One who talked with man in the cool of the day. The One who made the Heavens and the Earth. I'm tired of MANS idea. I'm tired of dead faith. I'm growing to despise this very thing; We say God is not the Author of confusion, yet, why is there so much confusion with this Book?

We've put God in a "Manual", or a classroom. Defining Him is complicated. We go to the ends of the earth trying to understand. We are no different than the Scribes and Pharasees, well learned, yet completely lost.

Brother, I lay my head on my pillow every night just like any other man. My heart and mind starve to know Him! There is a hunger in me I can't explain. God put that there! My deepest desires are to worship the Almighty. To love Him. To give Him my all. I also realize, I'm so limited, so small, and that I have been a boastful man. Our pulpits burn with God's judgement, while people are on the pews dying of thirst. They hunger inside. The internal compass God gave us is pleading for "true" North, and we are heading due south.

One day, my last breath will be. My final hour will come. My cry to the Father above will hopefully shine above everything I've ever done. I truly see Him as my Father, and me His son.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

What's so interesting about your response is, you do the same thing others do when giving an answer; you don't give an answer. If my comments about "Killing" are inaccurate, you don't say why or how. Same with unforgiveness, revenge, and loving our enemies. The Old Testament is full of bloodshed and unmerciful killing. Why did God change from the Old to the New? You know why, because MAN wrote the book, and we make "IT" fit our fancy. We will kill because we find a way to justify it.

And, if you are so sure about yourself, and the Bible is so clear about all these complex issues, why are there over 1000 denominations in this Country? Who's right, and who's wrong? The Bible does not bring unity, it causes division, and the reason is simple; MAN wrote it. Arguing over Scripture has been around since it was created. Debate, debate, debate.

How do you know that these men of the past were brillant? Did you know them? Did you speak with them? Do you know thier personal lives as a neighbor? Are you relying on past records or artifacts that could have been easily manipulated by people who are protecting a political or moral stance not held by the Almighty?

Friend, we came to this Land centuries ago and annihalated the Indian culture in the name of Christianity. We brought disease, ripped these people away from the land that they loved and respected, and massacered tribe after tribe with "Gods Love". We claim our Nation as being born upon the Foundation of Scripture, yet we discover our intention upon humanity was brutal and dark. Same with slavery.

You also don't address the Catholic influence upon the Bible we have today. The King James Bible was produced/translated by 47 Scholars who were slanted towards Catholisism, not to mention, England was basically a Catholic country.

And, if what you say is so "solid" about prophecy concerning Jesus Christ, why do the Jews still believe he's NOT the Messiah? With 300 inevitable, undisputed, and EASY to understand prophecies, everyone should feel like you.

I don't know how entrenched you are with the Apostolic Church, but I've been pastoring for almost 13 years, and was brought into this movement back in the 70's. When I became a minister, my eyes were opened to the fallable ways of our "Religion", and I see clearly how we protect those who bring in the numbers. We've become a political machine, motivated by forces that are not Holy. "United" in our name means nothing. Brotherly love is lip service. We take the Scriptures that "FIT", and ignore the rest. It won't be long, Brother, and our mold won't be any different than all the other religions that pound the fist of, WE ARE "RIGHT".

I want to know the True and Living God. The One who created man for His pleasure. The One who talked with man in the cool of the day. The One who made the Heavens and the Earth. I'm tired of MANS idea. I'm tired of dead faith. I'm growing to despise this very thing; We say God is not the Author of confusion, yet, why is there so much confusion with this Book?

We've put God in a "Manual", or a classroom. Defining Him is complicated. We go to the ends of the earth trying to understand. We are no different than the Scribes and Pharasees, well learned, yet completely lost.

Brother, I lay my head on my pillow every night just like any other man. My heart and mind starve to know Him! There is a hunger in me I can't explain. God put that there! My deepest desires are to worship the Almighty. To love Him. To give Him my all. I also realize, I'm so limited, so small, and that I have been a boastful man. Our pulpits burn with God's judgement, while people are on the pews dying of thirst. They hunger inside. The internal compass God gave us is pleading for "true" North, and we are heading due south.

One day, my last breath will be. My final hour will come. My cry to the Father above will hopefully shine above everything I've ever done. I truly see Him as my Father, and me His son.

Notforsale

I understand everthing your saying. But I feel you are going in the wrong direction dening that the bible is not Gods word. I sudjest you do what I did a few years ago. Throw all of mans traditions and teachings and doctrine out the window and renew your search for God within the word. It does not matter what translation you use God did not allow his word the parts anyway that will lead us to him to be lost in all the translations of man, its still there. I know God has become even more real to me in the last years. Its all about a personal relationship with God not a church or group with a certain beleif. For God so loved the world he sent his only begoton son the whosoever beleives on him would not perish but have everlasting life. Only God can make sence of the questions you ask and give you answers.