Another Take On The Need For Water Baptism

[Aquila]

The point is God forgives at repentance....this doesn't mean that water baptism isn't essential. It just means that it is secondary to repentance.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Bro….I was pleading for God to forgive my sin with sobbing tears. The brother that prayed me through told me to thank God for his forgiveness and receive the Holy Ghost….and as I did….the Holy God of Heaven came down and filled me with His Spirit. God will not dwell in an unclean temple. If I was un-forgiven God would not choose to abide in me, filling me with His very Spirit. The Holy Ghost isn’t a mindless “energy” that flows through just any open door…it is God Himself manifest in Spirit. The Holy God of Heaven took up residence in this forgiven sinner’s heart. I was saved. And all of that was prior to water baptism. Now….water baptism identifies us with Christ and symbolizes the washing away of our sins….and it is a COMMAND. Therefore I obeyed that command. Had I refused to be water baptized I would have lost my soul, being in rebellion against the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I reject your notion that the Holy Ghost is merely an energy that flows into any open door….the Holy Ghost is God himself in Spirit. He will not dwell in an unclean or un-forgiven temple, therefore those who receive the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism are evidence that God HIMSELF forgives the sinner upon repentance. However, that repentant sinner is still under the command to be water baptized. There is no power in the water to save….nor is the name of Jesus a sin cleansing incantation or magic ritual. It is repentance that bridges the gap between fallen man and a Holy Ghost and allows grace and forgiveness to flow to the soul. WE DON’T SERVE A SACRAMENTAL GOD. LEAVE THAT TO THE CATHOLICS. We serve a savior who saves based on relationship. That relationship begins at repentance and continues through water baptism and the perfecting of the saint. Your sacramentalism demonstrates that you haven’t fully grasped the depth and beauty of what happened to you when you were filled with the Holy Ghost. It wasn’t just another box to check off on your passport to Heaven. This was the very God of Heaven coming to live in you…and that isn’t possible unless he forgives you.

Now consider this my brother….my wife was filled with the Holy Ghost as a minor while visiting the church. Her mother wouldn’t allow the church to water baptize her because she was from a Jewish family. She continued to come to church, filled with the Holy Ghost, praying, praising, even experiencing miracles in her life for months before her baptism. During that period my brother she was just as saved as you are, longing for that day when she could obey and be water baptized fully taking up the likeness of Christ by being buried with him in baptism. If she was un-forgiven until that point it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for a Holy God to dwell within her.

God himself testifies by his very actions that the sinner is forgiven at repentance. However, this doesn’t negate the fact that water baptism is a command to be obeyed. Failure to teach water baptism or to obey it is REBELLION…and that is what endangers the un-baptized soul.

God has and will continue to operate outside of your "religious" box.

The BIBLE nowhere says God cannot dwell in a unclean temple! Also you fail to realize the atoning aspect of repentance per the OT. Though it is a different level of atonement and not atonement as unto eternal salvation through Christ it is still a proper response or righteouss deed or as the ESV says proof of genuine loyalty. Thus one stands toward God and not in opposition to him. God can move and dwell and make you a chosen vessel but until you are in him through baptism you have failed to make covenant through uniting yourself with Christ in baptism. As all covenants involved purposeful obediance so does this covenant.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The point is God forgives at repentance....this doesn't mean that water baptism isn't essential. It just means that it is secondary to repentance.

It is post repentance yes in part in time but I would consider it to be the result of repentance or part ofthe same action as you are turning to the work of Christ, so secondary no! One could always repent before God and seek atonement for the flesh but uniting with Christ into his death and be buried with him is the whole point he came. It's not all about our death(repentance) but his. Thus repent AND be baptized..... Which is basically "turn and be converted/changed" To bring forth a new birth.