I can fully understand what you are all talking about. I am a Pastor and have the same problem with preaching with things that I struggle with. I mean this is difficult for me to talk about but I fell honesty will help. I struggle with being really good looking and preach against being really good looking all the time.
Luke 22:25-27
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
(KJV)
In the Kingdom, authority comes through servanthood. In addition Kingdom authority is not the same as carnal authority (lordship).
I appreciate your imput GS.
Still I'm seeing striking similarities in UC pastors and catholic priest. Not so for sure if that was the intentions of Christ. Look at these examples.
Acts 14:23 They appointed elders (plural) for them in each assembly
Still I'm seeing striking similarities in UC pastors and catholic priest. Not so for sure if that was the intentions of Christ. Look at these examples.
Acts 14:23 They appointed elders (plural) for them in each assembly
who answered when there was controversy.....elders and brethren Acts 15
I'm not seeing pastoral final authority here.
IMO and" how I see the scriptures, the "Pastor" (use the term loosely) should cast vision, lead the flock and shepherd the elders. The elders should Shepherd the people.
Amost 3:3 asks the question of how can two walk together unless they agree. You need one person to lead otherwise you are going to get stuck. Like the old joke says, "If Moses would have had a committee they would still be in Egypt."
You mention a the UC (I assume a denomination), anytime you have a denomination you have to have an organizational structure for it to work. It's the nature of the beast. I'm not against denominations, but they are man made and because of how they have to operate in order to function correctly, many times the Spirit is quenched by their rules and regulations.
Therefore, yes you probably do see similarities between those preachers and catholic priests.
However, it doesn't mean that the ministers are not called. God can still use them, but they have submitted themselves to an organizational structure and they must function as instructed (although some use their position as a bully pulpit).
IMO and" how I see the scriptures, the "Pastor" (use the term loosely) should cast vision, lead the flock and shepherd the elders. The elders should Shepherd the people.
Amost 3:3 asks the question of how can two walk together unless they agree. You need one person to lead otherwise you are going to get stuck. Like the old joke says, "If Moses would have had a committee they would still be in Egypt."
You mention a the UC (I assume a denomination), anytime you have a denomination you have to have an organizational structure for it to work. It's the nature of the beast. I'm not against denominations, but they are man made and because of how they have to operate in order to function correctly, many times the Spirit is quenched by their rules and regulations.
Therefore, yes you probably do see similarities between those preachers and catholic priests.
However, it doesn't mean that the ministers are not called. God can still use them, but they have submitted themselves to an organizational structure and they must function as instructed (although some use their position as a bully pulpit).
I would enjoy reading the scripture that shows the pastor as head of the elders.
I believe I'm remembering Moses did have a committee. Can't find the ref. right now but wasn't authority to judge handed to a bunch of folks? And truly the Israelites may have stayed in Egypt had it not been for Aaron.
Just because they are called and are submitting to some sort of structure does not give them power to be the final authority. I believe we both agree that is power given to the Almighty.
So far I've seen many orginizational structures fail or live at the brink of failure. I have recently witnessed a group of men split the so-called mothership. What a great example. Organizational structure had a beginning and I don't believe the one we follow started in the Word. I am going to dig a little deeper.
I'm interested in positions held like.....meturgman, and the bench of three.
My pastor who has gone on now used to say that if a preacher had a hobby horse that he constantly rode every time he spoke or every time you were in a meeting with him, odds were he was having trouble with that particular issue. And I observed that he was right on numerous occasions.
I've seen times when God gave a minister a message and he went around preaching it for a time or a season and then the minister would move on to something else. But, in my opinion, the ones you have to worry about are the ones that keep beating on the same old thing year after year after year after year. That's when I begin to suspect that preacher may actually be stuck on that particular problem.
My pastor who has gone on now used to say that if a preacher had a hobby horse that he constantly rode every time he spoke or every time you were in a meeting with him, odds were he was having trouble with that particular issue. And I observed that he was right on numerous occasions.
I've seen times when God gave a minister a message and he went around preaching it for a time or a season and then the minister would move on to something else. But, in my opinion, the ones you have to worry about are the ones that keep beating on the same old thing year after year after year after year. That's when I begin to suspect that preacher may actually be stuck on that particular problem.
Linear Mode
