Masculine or Feminine?

[Singrkel]

If long hair means uncut then why can't men have their hair to their shoulder blades and trim it? I think a lot of this becomes like the Pharisees and Sadducees getting so bent out of shape when Jesus healed on the Sabbath. We worry too much about the specifics and miss the whole point. Point here is that men should look like men and desire to look like men in their hearts, and the same goes for women. I think we are missing the whole point Paul was trying to make. If we are rebellious in our actions and hearts then that would be wrong. Why would he talk about the hierarchy through this whole chunk of chapter if he only cared about the hair? Why wouldn't he have used some other word to specifically say that it should be totally uncut? Let's face it, when we see a lesbian walk down the mall with a butched haircut and a butch outfit we all know what she is trying to do. I can't see God sending someone to hell over this, especially if in their heart they desire to please and serve him. Isn't that rightly dividing the word of truth?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Singrkel

If long hair means uncut then why can't men have their hair to their shoulder blades and trim it? I think a lot of this becomes like the Pharisees and Sadducees getting so bent out of shape when Jesus healed on the Sabbath. We worry too much about the specifics and miss the whole point. Point here is that men should look like men and desire to look like men in their hearts, and the same goes for women. I think we are missing the whole point Paul was trying to make. If we are rebellious in our actions and hearts then that would be wrong. Why would he talk about the hierarchy through this whole chunk of chapter if he only cared about the hair? Why wouldn't he have used some other word to specifically say that it should be totally uncut? Let's face it, when we see a lesbian walk down the mall with a butched haircut and a butch outfit we all know what she is trying to do. I can't see God sending someone to hell over this, especially if in their heart they desire to please and serve him. Isn't that rightly dividing the word of truth?

Now thats a revelation.....don't believe I have come across a view such as this.

How did you ever come to that conclusion?

[Singrkel]

Originally Posted by scotty

Now thats a revelation.....don't believe I have come across a view such as this.

How did you ever come to that conclusion?

Was that sarcastic?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Singrkel

Was that sarcastic?

Yes (my specialty)

Originally Posted by Singrkel

When I presented my Pastor with the hair/skirt issue,.........Some people say one thing, and some people say another thing.

People have spoken different opinions since standards began, whats so special now?

How do I know who's got it right? If my mind can be changed from something that I once believed so strongly in, how do I know which side is right?

If you believed so strongly before, what makes you think your wrong now? How did you know which side was right before?

When I used to pray or study this, it all just made sense. Now when I pray, I feel something totally different.

What changed? If you truly "felt" a certain way when you "prayed" then I assume you were in the Spirit and the Spirit was guiding you. Since God is the same today, yesterday and forever, why do you doubt now?

Originally Posted by Singrkel

However, I'm having a hard time understanding how God would have made this so complicated when he knew how all of this would play out, meaning that people thousands of years later would be reading the word and the word is all they would have.

Why is it complicated now but not before? What changed?

I have been told to read it for myself, but how can I if it's that complicated? Should the average person not read the bible because you have to be a scholar to understand it? That sounds like catholic's to me....I thought we were apostolic.

Does it not say that the Spirit will open your eyes to the Word? The Spirit will guide you in Truth?

So much contradiction...I told my husband it's going to have to come down to not going to this church anymore. I LOVE it there, but if I'm always going to hell in my pastors eyes and I can't step foot on the platform because of it, I can't stay there.

Now the big picture can be seen, You have already made up your mind. So to say the pastor is wrong would be to say that you have been wrong...right? Or was the Spirit wrong? After all you said you "prayed" and "felt" like all was as it was supposed to be. So was the Spirit wrong back then or did you not really have the Spirit back then?

Originally Posted by Singrkel

However, through the grapevine I heard

This will be the death of all, spiritually, it should be refrained from.

another couple went and talked to him someone in the leadership, and he said with tears in his eyes Pastor said that he doesn't want to put anything on us that isn't necessary because he knows that this
christian walk is already hard enough, but he feels like it's there and it is necessary.

Awesome, if your pastor is willing and open minded enough to study it through then you have nothing to complain about.

I just can't help but get the impression from your post that you have already made up your mind and have come here to get assurance. (which you will get plenty of) At the same time this is not where you need to get it from.

I will say this again, the Word of God states that the Spirit will guide us in the truth. The Spirit will open your eyes to the Word. The Spirit is your teacher, not Strongs, or commentary, or the fine print at the bottom of each page. The infilling of the HolyGhost is God in you, He is right there, have a question, ask Him, He will answer.

Not very complicated huh,

Read, study, pray...Read, study, pray

God Bless

[jaxfam6]

You know Scotty I am not sure how to take what you have written. I do not disagree with it but for some reason you seem a bit frustrated/aggrevated. That may not be the best frame of mind to make your replies in. Forgive me if I am wrong just making an observation.

I think that the reason some people are confused about some issues is that they have never really been allowed to think for themselves. Whenever they have tried to use the brain that God gave them they have always been shot down.

I was once in this situation. Took me a long time to start actually searching the word for myself and understand and believe it for myself. Once I started questioning things it was like a flood gate opened. Now I know what I believe and why. Some things are exactly as I was taught others not so exact. When you read your Bible and pray and then study the Greek and Hebrew and do your online searches and read what others have wrote you get a bit tired. So many that are filled with the Spirit of God have such different oppinions about things. Just do an online search on hair and that will tell you. 20 people and all of them will tell you something a bit different. After I come to a conclusion on a subject I have been studying then I go to my pastor and say this is what I have been studying and this is what I feel and believe. So far we have come to similar conculsions, not always exact but similar.

Scotty is right though. Read, Study, and Pray. Trust that God will not lead you wrong and then stand firm on what He leads you to understand and let no one take it away from you. Believe me once he shows you something no one will be able to shake you from it.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by scotty

I just can't help but get the impression from your post that you have already made up your mind and have come here to get assurance. (which you will get plenty of) At the same time this is not where you need to get it from.

I don't think this is a fair statement. On this post and elsewhere on the forum, she has clearly expressed a desire to study the issue from both sides, in order to come to a solid, biblically based conclusion.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

You know Scotty I am not sure how to take what you have written. I do not disagree with it but for some reason you seem a bit frustrated/aggrevated. That may not be the best frame of mind to make your replies in. Forgive me if I am wrong just making an observation.


Naaa, just stark honest straight forward reality (refreshing, don't you think)

I think that the reason some people are confused about some issues is that they have never really been allowed to think for themselves. Whenever they have tried to use the brain that God gave them they have always been shot down.

I was once in this situation. Took me a long time to start actually searching the word for myself and understand and believe it for myself. Once I started questioning things it was like a flood gate opened. Now I know what I believe and why. Some things are exactly as I was taught others not so exact. When you read your Bible and pray and then study the Greek and Hebrew and do your online searches and read what others have wrote you get a bit tired. So many that are filled with the Spirit of God have such different oppinions about things. Just do an online search on hair and that will tell you. 20 people and all of them will tell you something a bit different. After I come to a conclusion on a subject I have been studying then I go to my pastor and say this is what I have been studying and this is what I feel and believe. So far we have come to similar conculsions, not always exact but similar.

Scotty is right though. Read, Study, and Pray. Trust that God will not lead you wrong and then stand firm on what He leads you to understand and let no one take it away from you. Believe me once he shows you something no one will be able to shake you from it.

This is the bottom line, and it is personal, it is not what you have convicted of or what I have been convicted of, it will be what Singrkel is convicted of.

That is why she must get the answer from God, not us.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I don't think this is a fair statement. On this post and elsewhere on the forum, she has clearly expressed a desire to study the issue from both sides, in order to come to a solid, biblically based conclusion.

Like I said , that was MY impression.

It was gleaned from the thought that one so deeply rooted in a church and belief can uproot and change so quickly.

We are not talking about walking into a church for 1st or 4th time and hearing something we disagree with and walking out.

We are talking about changing a church that you have called home to for while, along with the convictions you have had, her husband was 5th generation and has always felt same.

That hit me as alot to uproot and throw away in just 4 hours and 15 minutes of discussion.

That was the amount of time from first posting the question to the post stating she will have to leave the church (unwillingly)

JMO (just my observation)

[scotty]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I don't think this is a fair statement. On this post and elsewhere on the forum, she has clearly expressed a desire to study the issue from both sides, in order to come to a solid, biblically based conclusion.

I also don't believe this conclusion can be found.

The discussion at hand concerns dress issues. These are personal convictions. It has been reiterated on this forum that nobody seems to be able to agree on what the bible states on the subject yet most agree that it is personal convictions between you and God.

Therefore I don't believe anyone can have a biblically based conclusion. That is where the "complication" starts, when we start trying to explain the Word of God.

Anytime MAN thinks he has the answers, MAN drifts further from the truth.

[Singrkel]

I wish that it was that cut and dry, Scotty. But this is the most complicating thing I have ever come up against. Let's face it, what our Pastor approves of and what is accepted and not accepted in our church is very important to us. If it was not, we would not be able to attend a church faithfully because we would always be seen as rebellious. This is so far from being a personal conviction it's sick. You are put in heaven or hell by an entire church for what you do with this issue. I wish everyone did see it as personal conviction. That would make my life a whole lot easier. I can't just go anywhere and wear a pair of jeans because I still attend a church where it is taught that doing that will displease God, therefore I am going against my shepherd, then Pastor finds out, then can't ever be used on the platform, etc... What I was saying before about believing one thing is that when the scriptures were shown to me, I thought, "well, that makes sense." People that showed me I trusted because they were the ones that led me to God, therefore I felt like they knew more than I did, so they must be right. I never said to myself, "I better study this and make sure because they might not know what they are talking about." I mostly believed everything I was told and I never questioned leadership or what they said because I thought since they are men of God, they have to be right. I felt like if I didn't like what they said, I better change because they are right. I didn't do much on my own at all. I just trusted everyone around me. That's why, I feel, that God put me in the driest valley for the past 3 years to strip me down to nothing. When I started seeing that I can't rely on what others tell me, but only on Him, I started seeing all this, but this has only been about a month ago, so I'm still struggling with whether just my prayers and studies are enough or if I should trust my Pastor on this. I'm just trying to get all sides so I can make an educated decision for myself since I have been going about this all wrong. Some days I'm so confident I feel like everything is great, cut and dry. Other days, I feel like I am loosing my mind. I think anyone that is going through the fire and trials feels that way. In case you aren't aware, this is a HUGE issue that is seen as something only backsliders do, so it's not so easy to just up and change things when you decide it's good for you. I am far from decided because I just have so much at stake here. I never want to just jump into anything, but I'd rather let God totally confirm my mind on it all so that I can have peace and go forward in him, not go forward in myself because of what I want.