Obama Addresses Racial "Anger"

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Dude....my first pastor used the "N" word and called mixed babies an abomination. He also refused to conduct mixed weddings. I sat under him until his death. His ministry was powerful and valuable to me. Would you consider me a racist?

Perhaps not. But one may say you could have/should have made a statement by choosing not to sit under a preacher who spoke so hatefully of black people, whom Christ also died for.

Its not my place to tell you you should have left... But personally, I definitely would have.

Originally Posted by CC1

...it is extraordinarily poor judgement for him to sit there 20 years.

...There are plenty of black churches who do not spout hatred that he could have been a member of.

Your butt is where your heart is and apparently none of this offended Obama's sensibilities enough for him to move his butt to another black church.

Indeed. And we keep hearing what a wonderful family man he is. Why would he want his children to be sitting under such hateful speech?

Originally Posted by CC1

That is poor judgement and should cost him any chance of the Presidency.

Indeed. If he doesn't have the guts to deal decisively with Rev Jeremiah Wright and cut him off, how is he going to have the guts to deal firmly and decisively with Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Al Qaeda, Kim Jong Il, etc??

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My personal prediction... Obama is seriously damaged by this. This will cost him at least 3-4% of the total vote in November. And that may well be enough to swing the election to John McCain.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by CC1

Did you read my post about my High School experience in 1970's Lousiana?

Yes. I agree that there are many who use being black as an excuse. However, in America today blacks still face challenges. For example, I served in the Ohio National Guard and one soldier I served with was a police officer. He was rather frank about how the police department didn't like black cops and how there was a definite disparity between how they applied the law. As an example he explained that cops were more likely to write tickets to black drivers while offering more warnings to white drivers. He said this was especially true if the black drivers were driving on the East side of the Miami. The logic was blacks were most likely up to no good if driving on the East end and ticketing them would discourage them from driving to the East side. This was only one example of something that might show how black people still face challenges in America.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Perhaps not. But one may say you could have/should have made a statement by choosing not to sit under a preacher who spoke so hatefully of black people, whom Christ also died for.

Its not my place to tell you you should have left... But personally, I definitely would have.


Indeed. And we keep hearing what a wonderful family man he is. Why would he want his children to be sitting under such hateful speech?


Indeed. If he doesn't have the guts to deal decisively with Rev Jeremiah Wright and cut him off, how is he going to have the guts to deal firmly and decisively with Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Al Qaeda, Kim Jong Il, etc??

-----
My personal prediction... Obama is seriously damaged by this. This will cost him at least 3-4% of the total vote in November. And that may well be enough to swing the election to John McCain.

It's my understanding that Obama has strongly denounced Wright, however, he also says he did not realize that Wright had preached such things.

So either he doesn't pay attention to what his spiritual leader says or he has slept through most sermons for the last 20 years. Neither scenario seems to give me much comfort.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I've sat under three pastors. All were white.

The first died in his 80's and was a powerful man of God. But bro...he would use the "N" word in private conversations. He forbade mixed marriages and even advocated outreach only in white areas of town. When asked why his concern was that black families would bring black young men into the church and he feared for the young ladies in our church. He even made a statement once while preaching that if we weren't wise our daughters would mingle with "colored boys" and soon the abominatino of mixed babies would be dancing before the holy altar of the Lord.

Doesn't sound like you understand where he might have been coming from, nor his background.

I don't advocate racism, but to those who seemed racist, that wasn't it at all, but a way of life.

My granddad was born and raised in West Virginia. He called all black people by the N word. That wasn't an insult nor a slur. To him, it was just like you and I calling them black. He didn't understand what the big deal was.

He had lots of black friends that came to his house. He allowed black children to swim in his pool. He introduced his friends as 'this is my N friend, Joe'. Joe would smile, shake our hands, and tell us it was nice to meet us, and we said the same.

His friends even understood him and weren't offended.

I remember him coming to our church just south of Chicago when I was a teenager. We had about 100 black folks that attended at that time.

My mom introduced him to a military man. He happened to be black. My granddad spoke to him for several minutes, then ended with, "Brother Smith, you are the finest N man I ever met." My mom about fell on the floor, but Brother Smith, apparently understanding that it was a compliment, not an insult, replied, "Why, thank you, sir!"

My mom later apologized and started to explain, but this man was from NC, and said he understood and wasn't insulted nor upset.

Now, this doesn't mean I condone using that word if you aren't using it to be nasty, because in reality, there aren't many people alive today who would use that word as 'just a word'. I don't use it, my children don't, and we never would.

But to many elderly folks, especially those from the south, think of it as no big deal.

They used to be called 'coloreds' in the 60's. Now that's considered a slur, but to many who continue using it, it's not a big deal. That's what they were called.

So in a way I can sympathize with Obama. Certainly my first pastor was inspiring, powerful, and prophetic. But bro...his views on race were something I never completely bought into. So I've personally experienced what Obama is talking about. It is very possible to respect and even honor a man who you find inspiring...yet disagreeing with him on some issues such as race or politics.

Oh, please!! What his pastor stands for goes beyond mere racial and political issues. He speaks of America being the enemy and Obama nods his head in agreement.

You haven't personally experienced anything close to what Obama's pastor spews out from his pulpit.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I think there is an effort to play on America's racial divide and use it against Obama. I for one understand that his pastor's statement have to be taken in context with consideration of the speaker's experiences, concerns, and intent.

Obama's Pastor is right...America should be "damned" if she cannot even admit she's committed atrocities against entire ethnic groups. My pastor was right, if America cannot even admit that abortion is wrong she should be judged. Frankly, both pastors, one from the right and one from the left are addressing valid moral concerns.

It isn't the white man who did this to the black man. What some don't realize is that when slavery was common in the 1800's, over 3000 slave owners were black as well! It wasn't merely a racial issue.

In addition, of all the murders that take place in this country, very few are connected to racism. The black man is killing other black men today.

Bill Cosby had it right when he said that black men cannot accuse white men of doing years ago what they continue to do to themselves today.

Also, let's not forget that Obama is as much white as he is black.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

It's my understanding that Obama has strongly denounced Wright, however, he also says he did not realize that Wright had preached such things.

Not to nitpick but, I think its more accurate to say he has denounced Wright's controversial words, but not Wright himself.

He said Tuesday: "I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother", (who also used to say racist things at times). The problem with that is simple:you can't choose a new grandmother. But you can choose a new pastor. And Obama chose not to.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Perhaps not. But one may say you could have/should have made a statement by choosing not to sit under a preacher who spoke so hatefully of black people, whom Christ also died for.

In all honesty I didn't see it as a "disqualifying" element to his character. He was powerfully anointed. I was healed under his ministry. I was filled with the Holy Ghost under his ministry. He was anointed and could prophesy to me about things in my life he couldn't have known. My wife was filled with the Holy Ghost under his ministry. I agreed with him on maybe 99% of the time. On issues of race I didn't agree. But at the time I sincerely felt that I was planted there by God for a reason. I acknowledged that my pastor was in his 80's and that he grew up in a different time. Preachers are still men who are products of their generation. My grandfather used the "N" word and had similar feelings toward mixed marriages. It takes a little culture and a little willingness to accept men for who they are and understand that experiences shape their feelings, thoughts, and opinions.

Its not my place to tell you you should have left... But personally, I definitely would have.

God filled me with the Holy Ghost there. He was a great man...but he was a product of his generation. Even Rev. Verbal Bean made some very off color remarks about mixed couples at a camp meeting at one time. Bro....we need to really open our eyes to the reality that racism is something that has impacted generations of Americans on both sides. And with stuff like the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, I think a little understanding toward Rev. Wright's condemnation of a nation who would treat her citizens as less than human would do us well. If he were condemning the Taliban for treating their citizens as less than human we'd cheer him...but he calls us on something most have largely ignored. America's treatment of races in our history is deplorable. If I were Indian or black I might even feel far more passionate about it. I think if a pastor said, "God '(****edited) America! God (***edited) America for aborting her children like they are merely lifeless blobs..." We'd understand what he was saying while to some on the left it would sound absolutely inflammatory and hateful. Likewise Obama and many black people understand Jeremiah's statements while to us they sound hateful and inflammatory.

Indeed. And we keep hearing what a wonderful family man he is. Why would he want his children to be sitting under such hateful speech?

See the last few statements above.

Indeed. If he doesn't have the guts to deal decisively with Rev Jeremiah Wright and cut him off, how is he going to have the guts to deal firmly and decisively with Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Al Qaeda, Kim Jong Il, etc??

I think it's fair to say that Obama states that he disagrees with his pastor on this and that we should allow his words to settle it. I served under a pastor I disagreed with about race for 10 years. Even today there are pastors who are racists or bigots in Apostolic circles and people sit under them while not agreeing entirely. Obama explained that he doesn't hold to his pastors most inflammatory views. For me that's enough. I'd never ask a man to "cut off" his pastor over this. I wouldn't cut off my previous pastor, though I'd admit that I don't completely agree with him on issues of race.

My personal prediction... Obama is seriously damaged by this. This will cost him at least 3-4% of the total vote in November. And that may well be enough to swing the election to John McCain.

Yes I agree. I can see that Obama will be hurt seriously by this. But what bothers me is that McCain was endorsed by a Zionist who has made equally inflammatory remarks against Palestinians...of course that's acceptable...after all that pastor is white like us. Falwell blamed 9/11 on liberals, gays, and abortion. Why not consider America's sins against blacks and Native American Indians as a factor too?

I see Rev. Jeremiah's statements as a bit radical...but I've heard equally radical statements from white guys on the right on other subjects. I think this is an example of what blacks still face. A white man can call America on her sins...but a black man call America on sins against minority races and suddenly the predominantly white media eats him alive. All of this is saying far more than we're realizing. We're almost proving Jeremiah's case for him.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Not to nitpick but, I think its more accurate to say he has denounced Wright's controversial words, but not Wright himself.

He said Tuesday: "I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother", (who also used to say racist things at times). The problem with that is simple:you can't choose a new grandmother. But you can choose a new pastor. And Obama chose not to.

Not to nitpick but don't we say hate the sin love the sinner. LOL

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Pastor Jeremiah voiced that he believed that God should "****" America for treating her citizens as less than human. The Tuskegee Syphilis Study is only one example of how this has been done in American history. America has to make restitution for her sins against entire people groups be they Native American, African American, or what have you. Yes....America should repent for her racial sins down through history. America should do her best to make restitution. The way to do this is debatable but acknowledging that she has committed grave sins against these people groups and suppressed them is the first step. I wouldn't have used Rev. Jeremiah's strong language...but I've heard language just as strong in relation to abortion and gay marriage. The current pastor of the church I left uses the word the word F-A-G to refer to homosexuals over the pulpit.

I think it's real telling when our pastors can use equally inflammatory remarks quite regularly and then we gasp, fan ourselves, and act like fainting women when a black pastor speaks strongly about issues of race and atrocities committed against his people.

I think some of us need to get some thicker skin. I also think we should have the guts to say that while his language was strong his conclusion has some weight to it and we as a nation need to at least say yes, we committed a terrible atrocity against them and continued to suppress them in the following generations. At one time it was illegal to teach a black man to read in some states. This was to suppress them. We did treat them as less than human.

While you continue defending something you keep going off the beaten path about that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, here are quotes from Obama about his now former pastor.....notice that you, so far, aren't even agreeing with him about his OWN former pastor:

On one end of the spectrum, we’ve heard the implication that my candidacy is somehow an exercise in affirmative action; that it’s based solely on the desire of wide-eyed liberals to purchase racial reconciliation on the cheap. On the other end, we’ve heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike. They weren’t simply a religious leader’s effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country...
Reverend Wright’s comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems...

But then, he seems to contradict what he just says about the man:

As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community.

Makes you wonder why he's now his EX pastor, huh??

[COOPER]

What is wrong with white people any way?