If you reference the bolded portion of the post you'll notice that the reason stated for not wanting anything to do with "Tulsa" is because of their disdain for the brethren "under the guise of standing for holiness." That is what I was addressing. It is very hard to separate the event from the framers IMO.
If you reference the bolded portion of the post you'll notice that the reason stated for not wanting anything to do with "Tulsa" is because of their disdain for the brethren "under the guise of standing for holiness." That is what I was addressing. It is very hard to separate the event from the framers IMO.
Mrs. LPW, care to respond?
What men are you referencing in your post?
__________________
13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:13-15 (NIV)
Tulsa, in my mind, has proven itself to be about having control. That's the one and only reason I am in disaproval of it.
Wait... not the only reason... the other reason is the distain with which men are speaking of their brethren under the guise of standing for holiness.
I applaud all of our ministers and leaders who will write strong but still kind letters about this issue. Because there will be those who follow after these men unwisely...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishoph
With all due respect this misrepresentation of the "Tulsa" framers, (bolded) is just as dangerous as the attitudes of which they are accused. (This is not directed at you, Mrs LPW, it just represents a sentiment that I have seen repeated often)
I challenge anyone on this forum, to provide one written letter, email, or other communication from even one of the "Tulsa" framers that demeans or in any way vilifies other ministers of the UPCI (including it's leadership) who will remain with the organization. I have had conversations with several of the leaders of the "Tulsa Group" and not one time have they spoke with disdain about their fellow brethren of the UPCI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophil
I may be mistaken, but I don't think any charges were being made against the "Tulsa framers"(in particular), but if there were, I agree some evidence would be required.
I would say that Mrs LPW DID in fact point to the Tulsa framers when she stated that Tulsa was only about control. Who else would be "controlling" this new group?
So Mrs LPW, what is the proof that this is all about control??
I would say that Mrs LPW DID in fact point to the Tulsa framers when she stated that Tulsa was only about control. Who else would be "controlling" this new group?
So Mrs LPW, what is the proof that this is all about control??
It was not the issue of control, but the vilification of the UPCI by some or one of the "Tulsa framers" that was being called into question.
__________________
13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:13-15 (NIV)
Mrs. LPW, care to respond?
What men are you referencing in your post?
Yes... give me a chance. I don't stay on the forum 24/7 to see what people have posted after moi! :-)
I really didn't think anyone would care a lick what I thought, since I'm just a Canadian.
But actually, I said previously I don't know any of the "framers" (I hadn't heard that term before so I first read farmers... and thought WHAT?)
I have only heard what others have said who have known them but I don't know them at all.
I was referring to Bro Pitman's letter... if he represents the rest of the Tulsa group... than I'm completely turned off.
(as well as some statements by other "UC's" on the forum... )
From what I've heard, read, seen, I don't believe Tulsa is about the tv issue... that, of course, is just my humble opinion.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
I'm a good old fashioned conservative by most standards... but I'd be a liberal to some (because I watch movies once in a while and love to watch a good ole hockey game) and a UC to some...
But what I strive to be most of all is not a liberal, conservative or any other such thing but a Christian. I try (don't always succeed at every moment of every day) to be balanced and moderate in all things. I try to love everyone, even when I disagree with them and/or think they are a moron of some type.
I've been known to judge things in my past. Before facing things in my own life I've been hard on people. But when you walk through the same valley you get a different perspective altogether.. and when you come out triumphant and they've come out defeated you don't look down on them any longer, but you say... wow... God was gracious and I've got to be as gracious to them as He was to me!
No.. that above paragraph has little or nothing to do with tv advertising or any other such thing...
But being the person I am... wanting to be gracious even when I completely think someone is off the wall or heading straight below in a hand basket...
I still have the good sense God gave me to see when someone's intentions aren't all they claim to be.
I don't know any of the men who are heading up this new alternative from Adam... I can't personally judge their character or motives over the years. (some on here have known them in the past and can) But I can see, and I can hear, and I'm no fool.
It's been stated, and it's the truth.
Tulsa is not about tv advertising... Tulsa may or may not even be about outward holiness issues, which I hurt to see fall by the wayside as much as any.
Tulsa, in my mind, has proven itself to be about having control. That's the one and only reason I am in disaproval of it.
Wait... not the only reason... the other reason is the distain with which men are speaking of their brethren under the guise of standing for holiness.
I applaud all of our ministers and leaders who will write strong but still kind letters about this issue. Because there will be those who follow after these men unwisely...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophil
It was not the issue of control, but the vilification of the UPCI by some or one of the "Tulsa framers" that was being called into question.
I see nothing in Mrs LPW's post that said anything about vilification of the UPCI. What I do see is her accusation that the Tulsa meeting is all about control. I have yet to see any evidence that would suggest this.
The fact is that NO official from the Tulsa group (that I have seen thus far) has sent out a letter telling folks if they stay in the UPCI that they will be shipwreck, and that the men in the UPCI are going to draw men away and ruin their ministry.
Yes... give me a chance. I don't stay on the forum 24/7 to see what people have posted after moi! :-)
I really didn't think anyone would care a lick what I thought, since I'm just a Canadian.
But actually, I said previously I don't know any of the "framers" (I hadn't heard that term before so I first read farmers... and thought WHAT?)
I have only heard what others have said who have known them but I don't know them at all.
I was referring to Bro Pitman's letter... if he represents the rest of the Tulsa group... than I'm completely turned off.
(as well as some statements by other "UC's" on the forum... )
From what I've heard, read, seen, I don't believe Tulsa is about the tv issue... that, of course, is just my humble opinion.
I have heard over and over from a number of conservatives that the TV Resolution was just the final slap in the face to most conservatives. The direction of the UPCI for some time now has been moving away from a conservative organization.
When men pull out of an organization because a vote has been cast by the majority (slim, I heard, but still a majority) to allow churches to advertise on tv... and begin to court all the ministers they think will follow them to start a new organization... putting people's names on websites without permission...
When men would rather see families split, and churches split, and the body split, than to allow for advertising on television when they use the internet themselves (which everyone who is honest will admit has much worse content available)... there is something a little more behind this. I would say it's a control issue. Just from my human experiences.
I'm not going to debate this... I have said before the "framers" are men I've never known... Bro. Pitmans letter spoke very clearly for itself.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
When men pull out of an organization because a vote has been cast by the majority (slim, I heard, but still a majority) to allow churches to advertise on tv... and begin to court all the ministers they think will follow them to start a new organization... putting people's names on websites without permission...
When men would rather see families split, and churches split, and the body split, than to allow for advertising on television when they use the internet themselves (which everyone who is honest will admit has much worse content available)... there is something a little more behind this. I would say it's a control issue. Just from my human experiences.
I'm not going to debate this... I have said before the "framers" are men I've never known... Bro. Pitmans letter spoke very clearly for itself.
Do you realize that the UPCI regularly courts ministers in the ALJC to join them??
I see nothing in Mrs LPW's post that said anything about vilification of the UPCI. What I do see is her accusation that the Tulsa meeting is all about control. I have yet to see any evidence that would suggest this.
The fact is that NO official from the Tulsa group (that I have seen thus far) has sent out a letter telling folks if they stay in the UPCI that they will be shipwreck, and that the men in the UPCI are going to draw men away and ruin their ministry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. LPW
Tulsa, in my mind, has proven itself to be about having control. That's the one and only reason I am in disaproval of it.
Wait... not the only reason... the other reason is the distain with which men are speaking of their brethren under the guise of standing for holiness.
I applaud all of our ministers and leaders who will write strong but still kind letters about this issue. Because there will be those who follow after these men unwisely...
The bolded portion is my whole point. Mrs LPW stated that it, "Tulsa," is about control, and the "disdain with which men are speaking of their brethren under the guise of standing for holiness."
This is a clear indictment of the "Tulsa" men as vilifying their UPCI brethren. IMO
Linear Mode
