History of Tithes in the Church

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Brother, just search in this forum, we have shown multiple times this is false doctrine. In this thread itself, I shown it is a post-apostolic doctrine. What else you need?

I have already stated that tithing is not a law under the new covenant. What false doctrine are you talking about? In another thread we are discussing the Sabbath. Although we are not under the law to keep the Sabbath, it doesn’t make it wrong to tell people to take a day off and rest. I don’t deny the principle taught from the Sabbath in law.

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

This scripture is a example of how the NT churches where commanded to give in ratio to how they had prospered. That is very similar to the principle of tithing. In ratio to the bountifulness of the harvest, the children of Israel where commanded to give a tenth of their increase. Paul commanded the church in Corinth to give weekly, in ratio to how God had prospered. Sometimes 10% maybe too little and sometimes 10% maybe too much, but that is up to the individual and God.

I don’t believe we should mandate a tithe, but nor should we be omitting it from the scriptures. Again, we have examples of tithing outside of Mosaic law.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

This scripture is a example of how the NT churches where commanded to give in ratio to how they had prospered.

Paul did not command the church to give. The giving was voluntary, and was on the Corinthians' own initiative. What Paul "ordered" was simply the efficient means of arranging for the collection to be done.

It should also be noted that this was a collection from several churches to send a donation to the poor saints in Jerusalem (Paul elsewhere calls it "alms"). It was not a collection from the local saints for the purpose of paying any local ministers anything, much less paying a mortgage company or utility company anything.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Paul did not command the church to give. The giving was voluntary, and was on the Corinthians' own initiative. What Paul "ordered" was simply the efficient means of arranging for the collection to be done.

It should also be noted that this was a collection from several churches to send a donation to the poor saints in Jerusalem (Paul elsewhere calls it "alms"). It was not a collection from the local saints for the purpose of paying any local ministers anything, much less paying a mortgage company or utility company anything.

One time discussing with a pastor in person about tithing he pulled that verse, because it is the typical verse they pull to show "proportion" and that it must be "10%".

Now something interesting about that scripture is this:

1Co 16:2 NKJV - (2) On the first [day] of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

The goal is to collect plenty during a period and at the moment Paul shows up, there is a good amount. The offering had a specific cause, and it was for a short period of time.

Paul asking them to set aside as they prosper may as well be just the very old practice of saving, not necessarily a reference to tithing, as some want saints to believe.

In fact, Paul speaking of the same offering to Jerusalem in 2 Corinthians he says:

2Co 9:7 NKJV - (7) [So let] each one [give] as he purposes in his heart[/I], not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

So, no Paul was not referring to tithing indirectly as they want people to believe.


An example of freewill offering in the OT that can be a principle:


Exo 25:2 NKJV - (in reference to the building of the tabernacle) (2) "Speak to the children of Israel, that they bring Me an offering. From everyone who gives it willingly with his heart you shall take My offering.

Exo 36:3-7 NKJV - (3) And they received from Moses all the offering which the children of Israel had brought for the work of the service of making the sanctuary. So they continued bringing to him freewill offerings every morning. (4) Then all the craftsmen who were doing all the work of the sanctuary came, each from the work he was doing, (5) and they spoke to Moses, saying, "The people bring much more than enough for the service of the work which the LORD commanded [us] to do." (6) So Moses gave a commandment, and they caused it to be proclaimed throughout the camp, saying, "Let neither man nor woman do any more work for the offering of the sanctuary." And the people were restrained from bringing, (7) for the material they had was sufficient for all the work to be done--indeed too much.


And for the offering of the Temple during Jesus' time, which was that same voluntary offering, Jesus says:

Mar 12:41-44 NKJV - (41) Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many [who were] rich put in much. (42) Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans. (43) So He called His disciples to [Himself] and said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; (44) "for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood."


There are plenty of churches that do not preach tithing, in fact, they preach against it, yet they make it, and they have buildings, and a good amount of them have even full time ministers.

UPCI/WPF/ALJC Pastors like to accuse the saints of "lack of faith" when they don't tithe (or worse, they accuse them of greed), but it is the opposite. The pastors lack the faith to not demand 10%. Not only that, they won't drop it because they benefit from it directly, or simply because if they do, their license is revoked and they are kicked out of the organization. They likely fear man, or they likely fear their income. It takes the courage of the people of the reformation to stand for what it is truth against the dominating organization.

[Tithesmeister]

I’ve been just reading along and not commenting. Y’all know what I believe.

But . . .

It really is pretty fundamental.

Satan is a liar and the father of lies.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. There are many scriptures that reinforce these fundamental truths. So I challenge Brother Blume and the Good Samaritan to address the commonly held beliefs of the modern tithing doctrine, and research if they are generally and specifically true, or false. Let’s make a list and run them down, using scripture, in context.

For instance the doctrine that tithing is money.

Or the pastors are eligible to receive tithing.

Or the notion that everyone is supposed to tithe.

Or even that (Lord help us) “it is impossible to be saved if you don’t tithe”.

The truth is that the tithing doctrine taught by the majority of apostolic/Pentecostal churches is not one lie but many lies.

And lying is a heaven or hell issue.

Any takers to my challenge?

Whoever loses MUST REPENT, because obviously the two views cannot both be right. And as Brother Coksiw said “all false doctrine has consequences “.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have already stated that tithing is not a law under the new covenant. What false doctrine are you talking about? In another thread we are discussing the Sabbath. Although we are not under the law to keep the Sabbath, it doesn’t make it wrong to tell people to take a day off and rest. I don’t deny the principle taught from the Sabbath in law.

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

This scripture is a example of how the NT churches where commanded to give in ratio to how they had prospered. That is very similar to the principle of tithing. In ratio to the bountifulness of the harvest, the children of Israel where commanded to give a tenth of their increase. Paul commanded the church in Corinth to give weekly, in ratio to how God had prospered. Sometimes 10% maybe too little and sometimes 10% maybe too much, but that is up to the individual and God.

I don’t believe we should mandate a tithe, but nor should we be omitting it from the scriptures. Again, we have examples of tithing outside of Mosaic law.

Brother,

It is concerning that you quote this verse in a conversation about tithing. It is doubly concerning that you didn’t quote the verse above it to provide context.

You profess to have been wrong before about some doctrine, and have repented of that false doctrine. There is a reason and a definition for the word indoctrination. Carefully consider whether you have been indoctrinated with a doctrine that is false (false meaning inconsistent or contrary to scripture).

So let me lend some color (aka context) to the scripture you posted.

16 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

Do you see my concerns? The tithe doctrine of the modern apostolic church is typically about saints giving money to the pastor. But this is all about saints giving to saints. Which is about as backward as it can get to typical tithing doctrine of today. Besides of course, this has nothing to do with tithing but is much closer to the giving of alms, which certainly has scriptural support in the post crucifixion NT scripture.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother,

It is concerning that you quote this verse in a conversation about tithing. It is doubly concerning that you didn’t quote the verse above it to provide context.

You profess to have been wrong before about some doctrine, and have repented of that false doctrine. There is a reason and a definition for the word indoctrination. Carefully consider whether you have been indoctrinated with a doctrine that is false (false meaning inconsistent or contrary to scripture).

So let me lend some color (aka context) to the scripture you posted.

16 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

Do you see my concerns? The tithe doctrine of the modern apostolic church is typically about saints giving money to the pastor. But this is all about saints giving to saints. Which is about as backward as it can get to typical tithing doctrine of today. Besides of course, this has nothing to do with tithing but is much closer to the giving of alms, which certainly has scriptural support in the post crucifixion NT scripture.

I will try to post some comment’s tomorrow, but just wanted to say There was no intent other than trying to keep my post condensed. I am aware of the context and it isn’t a secret. I am not legalistic in the method of giving. Matter of fact, coincidentally I taught this very chapter today to our assembly. We teach through the Bible chapter by chapter and this is where landed today ( pretty neat). I never even mentioned tithe today until question and answer (we do at the end of every study) and someone asked if they could pay tithes by giving to other needs outside of the church.

My reply was, “there isn’t a NT command to tithe , so of course you could give a tenth to whomever you want to help (doing it unto the Lord). Although, we have a responsibility to support the ministry of the local church through faithful giving. I added that I personally would prefer to give to the church and then take the need to the church leadership and request help. That would kill two birds with one stone, I then would have shown faithful support to the local church and also got a need met. If church leaders are not being accountable with their church resources, I would understand why people would not want to give. If someone in our church has a need, we teach and believe in bearing one another’s burdens.

[good samaritan]

Correction I taught 2 Corinthians 8&9, but same principle

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Correction I taught 2 Corinthians 8&9, but same principle

I appreciate your attitude. You really seem to be honestly seeking the truth.

But . . .

In the 2Corinthians 8&9 we find this little gem in relation to tithing, or not.

Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Once again, pretty much the opposite of any tithing doctrine I’ve heard from nearly any pastor.

Thanks. I look forward to your comments and a good discussion.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have already stated that tithing is not a law under the new covenant. What false doctrine are you talking about? In another thread we are discussing the Sabbath. Although we are not under the law to keep the Sabbath, it doesn’t make it wrong to tell people to take a day off and rest. I don’t deny the principle taught from the Sabbath in law.

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
This scripture is a example of how the NT churches where commanded to give in ratio to how they had prospered. That is very similar to the principle of tithing. In ratio to the bountifulness of the harvest, the children of Israel where commanded to give a tenth of their increase. Paul commanded the church in Corinth to give weekly, in ratio to how God had prospered. Sometimes 10% maybe too little and sometimes 10% maybe too much, but that is up to the individual and God.

I don’t believe we should mandate a tithe, but nor should we be omitting it from the scriptures. Again, we have examples of tithing outside of Mosaic law.

I am a strong advocate for teaching the scriptural truth on tithing. I’m not afraid of any scripture on tithing. Nothing combats false doctrine like pure unadulterated scripture.

In relation to the tithe of Abraham to Melchisodec, what exactly did Abraham tithe?

And specifically, was it money?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I am a strong advocate for teaching the scriptural truth on tithing. I’m not afraid of any scripture on tithing. Nothing combats false doctrine like pure unadulterated scripture.

In relation to the tithe of Abraham to Melchisodec, what exactly did Abraham tithe?

And specifically, was it money?

And, why exactly did he pay a tenth of the (no spoilers)?