Timmy Talk - Page 50

jfrog · #**491** 12-01-2010, 08:56 PM

I'm thinking that if it's evil for God to kill a person then it's probably evil for me to swat that fly and stomp that spider...

Timmy · #**492** 12-01-2010, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

Ugh. The story of Abraham putting Isaac on the altar is a tough one for me.

I said Adam! OK, you got me. It wasn't hard, though, was it?

I used someone other than Abraham in the question because, as we all know, Abraham was actually told by God to sacrifice Isaac, so he doesn't count.

I just wondered, if that act itself would be a sin, if it were done by anyone other than Abraham, under orders.

Azzan · #**493** 12-02-2010, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

I said Adam! OK, you got me. It wasn't hard, though, was it?

I used someone other than Abraham in the question because, as we all know, Abraham was actually told by God to sacrifice Isaac, so he doesn't count.

I just wondered, if that act itself would be a sin, if it were done by anyone other than Abraham, under orders.

Like our armed forces?

Timmy · #**494** 12-02-2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azzan

Like our armed forces?

Our armed forces sacrifice their kids to God?

Timmy · #**495** 12-02-2010, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

Our armed forces sacrifice their kids to God?

Oh, I think you mean like the country sacrifices our kids in the armed forces. Right?

No. Not like that. Adam put Cain (not because he'd turn out to be a murderer, later in life; because he's the oldest) on a pile of wood, killed him, set fire. He did this (in my alternative universe) to honor God, and to prove that he loved Him.

Was that a sin?

Timmy · #**496** 12-02-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

Oh, I think you mean like the country sacrifices our kids in the armed forces. Right?

No. Not like that. Adam put Cain (not because he'd turn out to be a murderer, later in life; because he's the oldest) on a pile of wood, killed him, set fire. He did this (in my alternative universe) to honor God, and to prove that he loved Him.

Was that a sin?

Let's not get all hung up on whether the law had been given yet or not, in Adam's day. I could have chosen David for the example. In fact, yeah, now it's David, not Adam. And it was baby Solomon in the fire. And let's not get it all complicated by saying God would have stopped him, just like he stopped Abraham. In this hypothetical, that doesn't happen. The baby dies.

OK. Sin or not sin?

Timmy · #**497** 12-02-2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

Let's not get all hung up on whether the law had been given yet or not, in Adam's day. I could have chosen David for the example. In fact, yeah, now it's David, not Adam. And it was baby Solomon in the fire. And let's not get it all complicated by saying God would have stopped him, just like he stopped Abraham. In this hypothetical, that doesn't happen. The baby dies.

OK. Sin or not sin?

Know what? Scratch that. Too many complications, Solomon destined to be king, and all. Never mind David. Replace him with a random unknown Jewish man. Not even famous, at all. Not mentioned in the Bible, even in passing. Just some guy who really loves God. So much that he, of his own initiative, gives his son to God in a burnt offering.

Sin or not sin?

missourimary · #**498** 12-02-2010, 11:37 AM

Sin, Timmy. And Abraham would have sinned as well, had he actually offered Isaac. But he didn't, and we all know that. God didn't want Isaac to die. There were other reasons for that story. At the same time, God offered His son according to John 3:16. That doesn't make God evil. Jesus says He laid His own life down. He died for us willingly, and for a greater good. That is no more evil than a fireman rushing into a fire to bring out a child, only to die of inhalation himself. The chief isn't a murderer. The fireman rushed in of his own volition, even if the chief asked him to. The fireman didn't commit suicide, he became a hero. And though his death is mourned, what he has done is considered very good.

Timmy · #**499** 12-02-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary

Sin, Timmy. And Abraham would have sinned as well, had he actually offered Isaac. But he didn't, and we all know that. God didn't want Isaac to die. There were other reasons for that story. At the same time, God offered His son according to John 3:16. That doesn't make God evil. Jesus says He laid His own life down. He died for us willingly, and for a greater good. That is no more evil than a fireman rushing into a fire to bring out a child, only to die of inhalation himself. The chief isn't a murderer. The fireman rushed in of his own volition, even if the chief asked him to. The fireman didn't commit suicide, he became a hero. And though his death is mourned, what he has done is considered very good.

Thanks! How come you're not scared to answer my questions?

So, in the case of Abraham, it seems you would agree that, up until the point that He stopped Abe's hand, God had commanded Abraham to sin. True?

missourimary · #**500** 12-02-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

Thanks! How come you're not scared to answer my questions?

So, in the case of Abraham, it seems you would agree that, up until the point that He stopped Abe's hand, God had commanded Abraham to sin. True?

No, God did not command Abraham to sin. That's the whole point. He commanded Abraham to start toward an end that would have been sin had it been seen through to the end. Because God knew He would stop the action before the end, though, it had a purpose other than sin.

If you ask your son to hold his hand over a flame to prove the point that fire is hot and shouldn't be played with, but remove his hand before it gets burnt, is that child abuse? No. It wasn't wrong because it was intended to teach, not harm. And when God asked Abraham to offer Isaac, He was also teaching, not harming.