To accept the Gospel is to be obedient to the Gospel. This is the obedience of faith.
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Faith itself in the Gospel is obedience to the Gospel. The Gospel is good news to be accepted. Salvation is in the acceptance of the Gospel, not in the mimicking of the Gospel.
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
You can have faith that your house is burning down all you like, but you best get off your butt and get out of the house if you want to live.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
Last edited by Mrs. LPW; 11-07-2007 at 04:11 PM.
Reason: Adding more
To accept the Gospel is to be obedient to the Gospel. This is the obedience of faith.
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Faith itself in the Gospel is obedience to the Gospel. The Gospel is good news to be accepted. Salvation is in the acceptance of the Gospel, not in the mimicking of the Gospel.
3Through faith we understand
4By faith Abel offered unto God.
5By faith Enoch was translated
7By faith Noah, prepared an ark
8By faith Abraham, , obeyed; and he went out, , dwelling in tabernacles:
11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed,
17By faith Abraham, offered up Isaac:
20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau
21By faith Jacob, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped,
22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention; and gave commandment
23By faith Moses, was hid three months
24By faith Moses, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;forsook Egypt, kept the passover, passed through the Red sea
30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down,
31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not,
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
3Through faith we understand
4By faith Abel offered unto God.
5By faith Enoch was translated
7By faith Noah, prepared an ark
8By faith Abraham, , obeyed; and he went out, , dwelling in tabernacles:
11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed,
17By faith Abraham, offered up Isaac:
20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau
21By faith Jacob, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped,
22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention; and gave commandment
23By faith Moses, was hid three months
24By faith Moses, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;forsook Egypt, kept the passover, passed through the Red sea
30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down,
31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not,
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Are you saying Faith is a Verb???????????????????? Adino listen up faith is a verb.
3Through faith we understand
4By faith Abel offered unto God.
5By faith Enoch was translated
7By faith Noah, prepared an ark
8By faith Abraham, , obeyed; and he went out, , dwelling in tabernacles:
11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed,
17By faith Abraham, offered up Isaac:
20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau
21By faith Jacob, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped,
22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention; and gave commandment
23By faith Moses, was hid three months
24By faith Moses, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;forsook Egypt, kept the passover, passed through the Red sea
30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down,
31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not,
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Thanks for proving my point. These acted BY faith. It was faith which prompted the actions. Your post stresses that faith is separate and distinct from the actions it prompts.
LPW brings up James: While it is certainly true a living faith will lead to external manifestations (i.e., "works of faith") it is also true, and more to the point I might add, that the living faith exists prior to its external evidential manifestation. If it did not first exist in the heart the external manifestation would not follow.
God, who knows the heart, purifies the heart by faith (Acts 15:9). We are justified by faith in the eyes of God. Justification comes from man when our faith is externalized. Therefore we do have whereof to glory if our justification is by works.... but not before God (Romans 4:2). Justified in the eyes of God by faith and in the eyes of our peers by "works of faith." Salvation depends on the former, not the latter.
Do not make the mistake of calling the fruit of faith faith itself. Be careful not to call the apple the apple tree.
Steve, the above applies to your post as well.
With the heart man believes unto righteousness. Any action which might follow only stands as witness to an existing reality.
Thanks for proving my point. These acted BY faith. It was faith which prompted the actions. Your post stresses that faith is separate and distinct from the actions it prompts.
LPW brings up James: While it is certainly true a living faith will lead to external manifestations (i.e., "works of faith") it is also true, and more to the point I might add, that the living faith exists prior to its external evidential manifestation. If it did not first exist in the heart the external manifestation would not follow.
God, who knows the heart, purifies the heart by faith (Acts 15:9). We are justified by faith in the eyes of God. Justification comes from man when our faith is externalized. Therefore we do have whereof to glory if our justification is by works.... but not before God (Romans 4:2). Justified in the eyes of God by faith and in the eyes of our peers by "works of faith." Salvation depends on the former, not the latter.
Do not make the mistake of calling the fruit of faith faith itself. Be careful not to call the apple the apple tree.
Steve, the above applies to your post as well.
With the heart man believes unto righteousness. Any action which might follow only stands as witness to an existing reality.
EVERYONE in Hebrews 11 DID something!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NONE just believed ONLY!
Faith is OBEYING what God has said like:
"He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved."
EVERYONE in Hebrews 11 DID something!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NONE just believed ONLY!
Faith is OBEYING what God has said like:
"He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved."
What was it that engendered everything everyone "did" in Hebrews 11?
When you correctly answer "faith" you will have conceded to my point that faith is separate and distinct from the acts it engenders.
The obedient actions you speak of are not faith. They are engendered BY faith. They are acts "of" faith.
Do you believe on the Son of God? Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. And the man said, Lord, I believe.
"Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe." Christ appears and says to Thomas, "...be not faithless, but believing." Thomas then believed and Christ continued, "...because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." The author of John continues, "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."
When one has such a faith begin to exist in his heart he has been "obedient" to the Gospel. Any action subsequently engendered BY this faith in the Gospel is not faith but an "act of faith" like those mentioned in Hebrews 11.
Mimicking the Gospel message by being baptized is not obedience to the Gospel. Baptism is an "act of faith". It is not "obedience" to the Gospel. We are to repent and believe the Gospel message. We are to return to God by trusting in the Gospel of our salvation. Returning to God through acceptance of this Good News is the obedience of faith. Those who are obedient to the Gospel message, i.e., those who accept it with a trusting heart, are subsequently baptized to externally manifest the reality of their heart having become unified with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Baptism externally dramatizes the heart's unification with the Gospel.
Nothing cloudy here, Ferd. God bless, good to see you again.
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 
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