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  #41  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:29 PM
Rico Rico is offline
Shaking the dust off my shoes.


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLYP View Post
Nope....If I am preaching it...YES!!!!

99% of the funeral I "host" it is always said that death is a time to reflect on how short life is and how prepared we are to meet God.

ANY Pastor who does not use an "occupied" casket as a visual aid to help folks see the value of having your eternity settled, has missed one of the most powerful opportunities to reach a hurting, lost heart.

A Pastor needs to remember , they are dead....the funeral is for the family NOT the dead!

This church had the perfect opportunity to reach out to a hurting family no matter what the sins or secrets of the deceased were.
Hmmmmm. Interesting. I have been to several funerals and haven't heard even one preacher use the event to preach repentance to the mourners. I wouldn't want whomever preaches my funeral to take that approach either. It seems tacky to me.
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  #42  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:31 PM
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NLYP NLYP is offline
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Originally Posted by Rico View Post
He would not perform a marriage ceremony for anyone who had been married and divorced, even if it happened pre-conversion. I have heard of other pastors that believe the same way, so what happened to my wife and I isn't uncommon.
Sorry for that experience RICO....THATS SAD!!!!
I dont know of very many if ANY Pastors that would take that stance.....ESPECIALLY prior to conversion!

Thata a slap in the face to the very blood of Calvary!
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  #43  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:32 PM
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NLYP NLYP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico View Post
Hmmmmm. Interesting. I have been to several funerals and haven't heard even one preacher use the event to preach repentance to the mourners. I wouldn't want whomever preaches my funeral to take that approach either. It seems tacky to me.
Then they missed a powerful opportunity.
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  #44  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:33 PM
Rico Rico is offline
Shaking the dust off my shoes.


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLYP View Post
Sorry for that experience RICO....THATS SAD!!!!
I dont know of very many if ANY Pastors that would take that stance.....ESPECIALLY prior to conversion!

Thata a slap in the face to the very blood of Calvary!
I don't worry about it too much anymore, to be honest with you. There are lots of ucs that have some different ideas about things. Being "double married" is what prevented me from going into ministry for several years in the uc church I attended. Once I started going to a UPC church, I found out not everyone thinks this way.
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  #45  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:36 PM
Rico Rico is offline
Shaking the dust off my shoes.


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLYP View Post
Then they missed a powerful opportunity.
Brother, funerals are a time of mourning, not a time for a preacher to take advantage of someone's emotions to get them to repent. It seems like manipulative behaviour to me. If the family requests that the minister preach an evangelistic message then it would be ok, in my opinion.
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  #46  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:48 PM
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retsambeW retsambeW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLYP View Post
Bro...who cares if it hurts the church....What about the family that is now very hurt BY THE CHURCH!

IMAGINE THAT!
If indeed they wanted those pics included, there was no other option here.
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  #47  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:51 PM
Rico Rico is offline
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NLYP, what about the church's responsibility to stand up for truth? What's next, allowing people to have their wedding receptions, along with the alcohol they bring, in the church because someone might get offended if we don't?
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  #48  
Old 08-12-2007, 06:02 PM
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retsambeW retsambeW is offline
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Originally Posted by Rico View Post
NLYP, what about the church's responsibility to stand up for truth? What's next, allowing people to have their wedding receptions, along with the alcohol they bring, in the church because someone might get offended if we don't?
This is the point entirely. Great post.
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  #49  
Old 08-14-2007, 07:15 PM
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chosenbyone chosenbyone is offline
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I was way, way off on this story not being pushed by the homosexual agenda in order to discredit this church and it's ministers. The following is a bit lengthy, but very telling on exactly what the church is up against today and the days to come.



For Immediate Release:
Monday, Aug. 13, 2007
HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN STATEMENT ON HIGH POINT CHURCH REFUSAL TO HOLD FUNERAL SERVICE FOR GAY VETERAN
WASHINGTON — High Point Church, a nondenominational congregation in Arlington, Texas, reneged on its original decision to host a funeral service for Cecil Sinclair, a U.S. naval veteran, upon learning that he was openly gay and that his family loved him just as he was. Sinclair, 46, a native of Fort Worth who served his country in Desert Storm by helping rescuers find downed pilots, died on Monday, Aug. 6, from complications following heart surgery. Sinclair was also a singer in the Turtle Creek Chorale. The pastor of High Point Church, the Rev. Gary Simons, brother-in-law of Joel Osteen, nationally known pastor of Houston’s Lakewood Church, said, “The church opposes homosexuality, and there was no way a service could be held that appeared to endorse it.”
Human Rights Campaign Religion and Faith Director Harry Knox made the following statement today on Simons’ decision and subsequent remarks:
“The Human Rights Campaign is shocked at the callous and mean-spirited decision of High Point Church and its pastor, Reverend Gary Simons. We mourn for the family over their loss and at the cruelty of High Point Church and its pastor.
“Reverend Simons’ statement that the decision is a matter of policy and not hatred and discrimination is a lie in politically correct clothing. It is not worthy of a man of the cloth. As this decision indicates, the church’s policy is to hate and discriminate against gay people. Its actions speak louder than its words. I cannot imagine Jesus turning away from a mourning partner and other family members. Pastor Simons and High Point Church certainly do not reflect the Christ they claim to serve.”
HRC’s Religion and Faith Program gives voice to the fair-minded faithful; opens hearts and minds to new ways of viewing gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people; and effectively works to reclaim the faith-based debate from the intolerant and radical right.
The Human Rights Campaign is America’s largest civil rights organization working to achieve gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender equality. By inspiring and engaging all Americans, HRC strives to end discrimination against GLBT citizens and realize a nation that achieves fundamental fairness and equality for all.
Please send letters of protest. Support our community.




Gay Vet Denied Funeral -READ & PROTEST- it's community time!
Body: SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM TO VIEW THE STORY AS IT APPEARS IN THE ASSOCIATED PRESS WIRE.

THE STORY IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS LETTER I SENT TO HIGHPOINT CHURCH OFFICIALS, AS WELL AS FORWARDING A REQUEST TO MORE THAN 400 MINISTERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO WERE IN MY PERSONAL EMAIL ADRRESS BOOK, ASKING THAT THEY WRITE LETTERS OF PROTEST.

PLEASE COPY THE EMAIL ADDRESS OF THE CHURCH LEADERS FROM THE LETTER BELOW AND WRITE YOUR OWN LETTER OF PROTEST....THIS IS A HORRIBLE THING TO HAPPEN TO ANYONE GAY OR NOT!!!
Rick

THIS IS A LETTER I SENT TO THE CHURCH.
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Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV)

"God sends no one away empty except those who are full of themselves." Dwight L. Moody
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  #50  
Old 08-14-2007, 07:15 PM
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chosenbyone chosenbyone is offline
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Dear High Point Church Leadership,
I was appalled as I opened my web browser this evening and saw the attached headline news story from the AP. Church Cancels Memorial for Gay Navy Vet..... Your church website is entitled "the Church Unusual", and I must say that with the story that followed from the AP you are most unusual.

In a day when we understand the impacts of death and the traumas both physical and emotional that a family experiences with loss, I am both shocked and horrified at the lack of respect, honor, and wisdom that your Pastor and/or church leadership utilized in the handling of this situation.

As both the owner of a funeral home and as an ordained minister who has served two non-denominational churches, I cannot even begin to fathom what must have gone through your minds as you exhibited anything but true Christian principles and values in this situation.

I have emailed this article to hundreds of ministers, ministries, funeral directors, and other concerned parties from my email address book and am encouraging them all to share this with their email lists as well, in an effort to reach every person in the Dallas area to let them know to stay away from such a TOXIC environment as you must surely have there.

Christ himself said that the two greatest commandments were that we "love the Lord your God and Love others as you love yourself"........it is quite apparent that you have missed the basic elements of this directive. The issue of homosexuality should not have even come up in this situation, the basic underlying issues should have revolved around the fact that someone had died and needed a house of worship in which to be memorialized, not to mention the fact that this man was a veteran of the US Navy. He was not good enough to be in your church dead, but he was good enough to serve his country and defend your rights to refuse him entry to your church. If you treat the dead this way, I can only imagine how you must treat the living, the homeless, the hungry, those without social status....and the list goes on.

If you truly believe that homosexuality is wrong, should you not attempt to show love and attract folks to your way of thinking with positive messages, or do you really believe that taking a hard hearted and cold approach to folks will want them to become a part of your mega church?

I am not asking that you be accepting or even welcoming to homosexual persons in your congregation......that is your right to decide how you view the religious aspects of such an orientation....BUT, for God's sake alone, could you not have reconized the simplest of human compassion by allowing a family the time to grieve....or were you more worried about what type of people that a "gay" mans funeral might attract and what type of image it would present for your congregation. Such a funeral might have served to open a dialogue between you and the gay community, or were you afraid that you might have to realize that homosexuals are no different than any other person. They, nor any other sub-set of society, deserves to be stigmatized in the manner that you have done.

I for one am glad that this has come to light. I find it interesting however that your pastor's brother-in-law, Joel Osteen, pastors one of the largest churches in the world ( Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas), and I have had the privilege of working with him in the past at two funeral services, with both of us co-officiating. He does not preach to, nor turn anyone away.......He follows the principles that you should mirror, in that he preaches God's Love and let's God make the judgments and let's God impress the decisions one should make within their hearts.

I am reminded of Christ telling us in the scriptures that we should not judge lest we be judged and in another place He tells us that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. What have you just done.....not only to the deceased, whom you view as a sinner, but to an innocent family who simply wanted to memorialize their loved one.

You can speak of love in your official press quotes all you wish, but the old adage that "actions are louder than words", are more than meaningful here. It is short-sighted, narrow-mindness such as yours that causes the majority of the hate in the world today. I applaud the AP and the family for coming forward with what is essentially an emotional rape and/or spiritual abuse that has been perpetuated by your pastor, your board, and your church upon this family and the memory of the deceased.

I do not know these folks (the deceased or the family), but I know that no human is unworthy of having a memorial or burial service conducted in a house of worship if requested by the family. We build churches and call it a church family, we call ourselves Christians, and by definition that means to be "Christ Like", now do you think that Christ, if walking the earth today would have rejected anyone, or ejected anyone from a building that was built in His name and is supposed to represent him?

While I abhor the likes of folks like Rev. Fred Phelps (www.GodHatesFags.org), who spew vile and horrid things at funerals of persons who are homosexual, I must now place you on the same level of such people, as you have slammed shut, nailed closed, and potentially forever sealed the doors of your congregation and Christianity to those who might be seeking Christ. The harm you have done, I am afraid is irrepairable.

I wonder, if you polled the full membership, and not the leadership only, of your congregation if they would have supported your actions. I trust that they will all see these media accounts and choose to move their church memberships elsewhere. It is one thing to legislate a code of doctrine, but quite something else to cut people off from a basic expected courtesy extended to most members of our society at a time of loss. I shall contact a number of Social Justice and Equality organizations that I am familiar with and hopefully will see them issue further publication of educational bulletins that alert people to the narrow minded and downright dishonorable conduct that has been exhibited by your church leadership.

Your kind of Christianity is exactly why so many people today avoid church and have a less than fulfilling relationship with God. I am sure that you never anticipated this becoming the knowledge of the general public and I am also sure that you never anticipated or even considered the emotional grief that you were adding to an already grief stricken and burdened family. I am asking that every person to whom I have sent this e-mail flood your email addresses with their own statements of horror at this atrocity.

I would ask at this time that as an act of good faith and repentance, that your Pastor issue a formal apology both to the family and to the media expressing an understanding of poor judgment and unchristian like behavior in this situation and I think it also only fair that the family be compensated by a memorial donation from both the leadership and the church, in the name of the deceased to a national organization such as SoulForce, the Human Rights Campaign Fund, GreenPeace, The Servicemembers Legal Defense Fund, or some other such social justice and equality organization

I will continue in a spirit of Christian love to pray for you and your eventual understanding of the harm that has been caused by your actions that have reflected poorly upon the church worldwide and upon individual Christians.

Sincerely,

Rev. Richard Ward, Ph.D, D.D.
RickWard66@sbcglobal.net

DEAR FRIENDS TO WHOM I SENT THIS EMAIL.....BELOW IS THE STORY FROM THE AP WIRE, AFTER READING IT PLEASE FORWARD IT TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS....NO FAMILY SHOULD EVER HAVE TO EXPERIENCE THIS, AND THEN SEND THE LEADERSHIP ADDRESSES LIST IN THE TO BOX ON THIS EMAIL A LETTER EXPRESSING YOUR HORROR AT SUCH AN EVENT HAPPENING TO A GRIEVING FAMILY..

THE PASTORS EMAIL IS NOTICABLY ABSENT FROM THE WEBSITE, BUT THE FOLLOWING ADDRESSES ARE LISTED AS CHURCH LEADERSHIP
robert.baxter@highpointchurch.com; bobby.yanick@highpointchurch.com; joseph.davis@highpointchurch.com. glenda.simons@highpointchurch.com, abel.pena@highpointchurch.com, roscoe.robinson@highpointchurch.com, ,
todd.mears@highpointchurch.com, misty.westlund@highpointchurch.com,

SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO SPEAK OUT AND THIS ONE OF THOSE TIMES

RICK
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Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV)

"God sends no one away empty except those who are full of themselves." Dwight L. Moody
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