The Bible is not the Word

[shazeep]

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Originally Posted by daqq

The eighth is of the seven, (and if I remember correctly he is the first).

Prototype - Genesis 4 (the Book of the Dead)
1) Cain
2) a nomad Iyradi-fugitive wandering spirit.
3) a blotted out Mehuyael stricken-smitten spirit.
4) a tent dwelling Yabal spirit acquiring cattle and fatlings of Bashan.
5) a musical Yubal spirit of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, psaltery, and dulcimer.
6) a feminine Naamah tribal spirit of pleasantness and pleasure.
7) a Tubal-Cain spirit of brass and iron who brings forth Cain with pomp and fanfare.
8) Cain II

Eight names of Nebuchadnezzar in the scripture:
1) Nbuwkadre'tsar (Hebrew transliterated) - Jeremiah 25:1
2) Nbuwkadre'tsowr (Hebrew transliterated) - Ezra 2:1, Jeremiah 49:28
3) Nbukadne'tsar (Hebrew transliterated) - 2 Kings 24:1, Daniel 2:1
4) Nbuwkadne'tsar (Hebrew transliterated) - 2 Kings 24:11, Jeremiah 27:6, Daniel 1:1
5) Nbuwkadnetsar (Hebrew transliterated) - Esther 2:6, Daniel 1:18
6) Nbuwkadnetsar (Aramaic transliterated) - Ezra 5:12, Daniel 2:28, Daniel 3:13
7) Nbukadnetsar (Aramaic transliterated) - Daniel 3:14
8) Nbuwkadre'tsar (Hebrew transliterated) - Ezekiel 29:18-21

The first year of Nbuwkadre'tsar is Yirmeyahu 25:1

Jeremiah 25:1
1. The word that came to Yirmeyahu concerning all the people of Yhudah in the fourth year of Yehoiakim the son of Yosiah king of Yhudah, that was the first year of Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon:

Ezekiel concerning Tyre-Tyrus, (Tsowr), and Nbuwkadre'tsar:

Ezekiel 26:7
7. For thus says Adonay YHWH; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus, Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Ezekiel 29:18-21
18. Son of man, Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great service against Tyrus: every head was made bald, and every shoulder was peeled: yet had he no wages, nor his army, for Tyrus, for the service that he had served against it:
19. Therefore thus says Adonay YHWH; Behold, I will give the land of Egypt unto Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon; and he shall take her multitude, and take her spoil, and take her prey; and it shall be the wages for his army.
20. I have given him the land of Egypt for his labor wherewith he served against it, because they wrought for Me, says Adonay YHWH.
21. In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Yisrael to bud forth, and I will give you [HaNavi Yhezkel] the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am YHWH.

So when Egypt falls, (O Egypt, great of flesh!), the words of Ezekiel will begin to be understood by the one whose carcass is given to the fowls of the heavens and the beasts of the field, (an idiom of course). Historicism is fallacy: when did Nebuchadnezzar ever conquer Egypt and fulfill the things prophesied in Ezekiel 29:18-21 quoted above? They were never fulfilled because clearly from a purely historical standpoint Nebuchadnezzar never conquered Egypt. Nbuwkadre'tsar is "the terrible of the heathen", and master of those bitter and hasty Chaldeans, (Habakkuk 1:6), who come to possess dwellings not their own; and the eighth is of the seven, the head-sum of the gold, so that the words of Elohim should be fulfilled, (Revelation 17:17), and haNavi Yirmeyahu implies that in the afterglow of the aftermath days one will consider it perfectly. Yea, the fall of Nebuchadnezzar VIII will be fuel for the fire like the great fattened calf, Gog, (all of them fatlings of Bashan). :tape:

[shazeep]

Atheist:
"God told the Israelites to wipe out entire nations; you don't know what you are talking about."

Originally Posted by daqq

Your strictly literal physical interpretation of all things supernal is what is truly disturbing, (to avoid calling you yourself disgusting). First off Yeshua clearly says that ALL the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohanan, (Matthew 11:13). It is not the fault of anyone else that you have chosen not believe what he said and apply it to your doctrine. Secondly Yeshua clearly says that the kingdom of Elohim is within you, (Luke 17:20-21). It is not the fault of anyone else that you have chosen not believe what he said and apply it to your doctrine. Thirdly Paul likewise tells you that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, (Ephesians 6:12). It is not the fault of anyone else that you have chosen not believe what he said and apply it to your doctrine. Fourthly Moshe tells you that he has set both life and death before you, (Deuteronomy 30:19). It is not the fault of anyone else that you have chosen death in your primary understanding of the Torah.

Exodus 20:13
13 You shall not ratsach-execute-murder-kill!

Show me anywhere that Elohim tells bnei Yisrael to break His own commandment! You cannot do it because the words used for slaying in the passages you quoted are not the same because it is supernal teaching, for Torah is supernal and internal, because the kingdom of Elohim is within you. The commandment above from Exodus 20:13 is external and physical and specifically bans physical killing of any kind without stipulation, (which means it also includes animals which are counted as living souls). You therefore disturbingly pit one scripture passage or statement against another and force your own contradictions into the (original language of) the text so as to tell untruths about the Elohim of whom it speaks. This is because your English translations are full of buffoonery from much the same mindset as your own and were not capable of comprehending what they were reading because they did not interpret Torah through the eyes and mind of Messiah by his Testimony freely provided for them in the Apostolic writings. The only other places ratsach is even used in the Torah are in the Deuteronomy 5:17 companion passage and the places where the blood avenger of the manslayer, (physical murderer or killer), is concerned because it pertains to strictly physical killing which is forbidden except to the legitimate avenger of blood, (next of kin). This topic is plainly and openly dealt with in the whole of Numbers 35 while there are a few other scattered references to the same, (Deuteronomy 4:42, 5:17 [the companion statement to Exodus 20:13] and Deuteronomy 19:3).
Strong's Hebrew: 7523. ????? (ratsach) -- to murder, slay

The Torah is the Word of the Living Elohim, who is Spirit, and His Word is supernal and spiritual, (and to be used internally against ourselves and "the flesh" with all its attributes because the kingdom of Elohim is within you). It is your strictly literal physical interpretation of supernal and spiritual things which is highly disturbing.

Yeshua teaches these things also and expounds the Torah in this way:

Matthew 10:34-39
34 Think not that I am come to send peace upon the Land: I came not to send peace, but a sword [the machaira-sword of spiritual warfare].
35 For I am come to sever man from his father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter in law from her mother in law.
36 And the enemies of a man shall be those of his own household! [Micah 7:5-6]
37 The one loving father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and the one loving son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And the one not taking up his stake and following after me is not worthy of me [for we are building a fence to keep out the wolves].
39 The one who finds his soul shall destroy her: and the one who tears down-destroys his soul for my sake shall find her.

In the above Yeshua does not speak of literal physical family members such as fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters, for he upholds the Torah commandment to honor your father and your mother in other places: the teaching is therefore supernal and internal because the kingdom of Elohim is within you. Yeshua also does not speak from himself in the above passage but quotes a portion from the Prophet Micah:

Micah 7:5-6
5 Trust you not in a friend, put not your confidence in a guide: keep the doors of your mouth from her that lies in your bosom.
6 For the son dishonors the father, the daughter rises up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; the enemies of a man are the men of his own house [Matthew 10:36].

This is yet another reason why I asked you if you are willing and capable of following simple linear systematic logic: for here again the Prophet Micah does not speak from himself but speaks from the Torah, that is, Deuteronomy 13, which to the spiritual eye is clearly supernal and internal:

Deuteronomy 13:6-11
6 If your brother, son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your close-associate friend who is like unto your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, "Let us go and serve other elohim", which you have not known, neither you, nor your fathers:
7 Namely, of the elohim of the people which are round about you, near unto you, or far off from you, from the one end of the Land even unto the other end of the Land:
8 You shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall your eye pity him, neither shall you spare, neither shall you conceal him:
9 But him you surely harag; your hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10 And you shalt stone him with stones that he die; because he has sought to thrust you away from YHWH you Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
11 And all Yisrael shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness, as this that is in the midst of you [yourselves].

But do not forget: You shall not ratsach-murder-kill! (physical).

[spoiler]Once upon a Bar Mitzvah there was a young boy whose name was Balal, (behold, is he not mixed?). And Balal just so happened to have a close friend of the genos having been called Baal which was his best friend associate and closest confidant. And this Balal loved his heavenly Father with all of his heart, and with all of his soul, and the young boy offered up alms of good deeds and prayers every day; even three times daily, with his bedchamber window open and his countenance toward Yerushalem of above. There was a day when Balal came to present himself before the Father, and the boy was in his bedchamber, on his knees, and as he began to praise and give thanks to the heavenly Father it came to pass that his best friend Baal crept in through his window and tapped him on the shoulder in the midst of his supplications. And the Baal said to Balal, "The circus is coming! the circus is coming! The caravan approaches the gates of the city! There be lions, and bears, and leopards, and wild beasts: come now, let us go out and see the affair, and you can finish your petitions at the evening oblation!"

And at that moment the Most High sent a Malak to the young boy; and Balal heard a still small voice in his heart, saying, "If indeed you love the Father with all of your heart, and with all of your soul, and with all of your mind, and with all of your strength, then guard His commandments: lay them up in your heart and in your soul; remember them and honor them by keeping them within you." And as Balal heard the voice of the Word within his heart the young boy was reminded of a passage he recently overheard some of the friends of his Father discussing outside the synagogue: "If your brother the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your closest associate friend who is like unto your own soul, if any of these entice you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other elohim, which you have not known, neither you, nor your fathers; namely, of the elohim of the people which are round about you, nigh unto you, or far off from you, from the one end of the Land even unto the other end of the Land; You shall not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall your eye pity him, neither shall you spare, neither shall you conceal him or hide him: But you shall surely harag-slay him; your hand shall be first upon him to put him to death and afterwards the hand of all the people. And you shall stone him with stones so that he die off; because he has sought to thrust you away from the Most High your Elohim who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Yisrael shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this that is in your midst."

Then Balal began to receive understanding of this Word: so he took up stones, and he stoned his counterpart associate Baal; he stoned him sharp stony words of refusal and rebuke until that Baal died the death under a heaping pile of heaping stony words. And no more did the young man allow the voice of that one to enter into his heart or into his mind. Yet none of the people of the town were the wiser; for in that little village none other had ever seen or heard of any kid goat named Baal. And as for Balal, (behold, was he not mixed?), the Father sent the Malak of the Covenant once again to deliver him a white stone with the new name, Balaq'el, having been written therein; for the young man was willing to annihilate a portion of his own soul and cleave away unto his heavenly Father.

He that has two ears, let him buy a sword . . .
He that has an ear to hear, let him hear: Chop! Chop!
Yeshua Says
[/spoiler]

https://sites.google.com/site/elaiasindex/yeshua-says

[shazeep]

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Originally Posted by daqq

Thanks for the compliment but I never even graduated high school. My first introduction to the original languages was a cd-rom which I purchased for $12.99, (Elohim is Good, very Good). You therefore have no excuse because in addition to such easy-to-come-by information, with what you have now online at your fingertips, 24/7, at thousands upon thousands of Christian "bible-tools" websites; you have everything you could ever imagine and more at your disposal so as to seek and find the truth. It therefore all comes down to how much you love our heavenly Father and His Word.



Is it my fault the herd always follows the lead bullock and many times it is over the cliff and into the ditch? How many times does Yeshua warn his talmidim of such? Modern preachers are no different than most Pharisees from the Gospel accounts and that is because they do not understand that the Pharisees, Sadducs-Kohanim, and Herod are used in allegories for the nature of the beasts of man, (carnal nature). Have you not heard? The words of Messiah shall never pass away: therefore beware the leaven of the P'rushim, and the leaven of the Tzaddukim, and the Herod, (O king), for this concerns the leaven of their doctrines.

Yeshua refutes both yours and the understanding of all those you claim disagree with my "unique interpretion", (as you put it). It is very clear from the Testimony of Yeshua that every man has his own "house" and this is the body-temple of the man, and therefore he says that the enemies of a man shall be they of his own household, that is to say, "your father the devil", "your mother of harlots", "your son of perdition", and so on and so on: cut them off from your midst before they choke the seed of the Word out of your heart. It has nothing to do with literal physical family members like your birth mother and birth father whom you are commanded to honor in the Decalogue. That is what seemingly apparent contradictions are for; so that those who truly love Elohim with all their hearts will seek to resolve the seeming contradictions. And every time another apparent surface contradiction is resolved the walk with Messiah becomes deeper and more firmly grounded because the knowledge of Messiah becomes greater; and faith based in true evidence is confirmed, (non-fideistic pistis, not as the blind faith which is taught for the most part in the mainstream pulpits of today and which has no doubt caused you great discouragement).

Matthew 19:17-20
17 And he said unto him, Why ask you me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if you would enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He said unto him, Which? And Yeshua said, You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness:
19 Honor your father and your mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
20 The young man said unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet?

Clearly in the above Yeshua upholds the commandment to honor your father and your mother and, therefore, it clearly refers to the concrete physical reality of the Ten Words Commandments, (which is another way we know that "You shall not ratsach-murder-kill" is clearly physical and literal in meaning [for starters, but of course there is also supernal meaning]). You therefore see yet another contradiction between the statement above from Matthew 19:19a and the passage in my previous post from Matthew 10:34-39 because you choose not to investigate deeper into the scripture. And why would you choose not to investigate deeper into the scripture? because finding the truth would mean that you must actually change your paradigm which you apparently, (like 99% of Americans), love more than the truth.



Who says it is my job to persuade 99% of the American people? And why do this at all, or why even bother, you ask? It is called love: if you truly love your fellow mankind then speak the truth so far as you understand it, and let's debate it, (iron sharpens iron, as it is said), and if you do not understand it, then love should drive you to find it, (truth), so that you might come back and share what you have found. But as far as "We're done" you are posting tripe, (your own word), in a Christian forum board, comparing Messiah to Krishna, and yet you are not able to defend your erroneous OP statements. That means to me that we are not done: if you do not want to respond to me anymore that is great because it leaves me free to expose the error behind most everything you are spouting.

[mfblume]

John 17:6-21 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (7) Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. (8) For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. (9) I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. (10) And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. (11) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (13) And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. (14) I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. (15) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. (16) They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. (17) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (18) As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. (19) And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. (20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; (21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

This is the most extensive account in the bible of Jesus praying.
________________________________________


Jesus is coming, judgment will occur one day, and we are going to have to have obeyed the WORD.

Jesus prayed for the apostles God gave to Him.
• And then he prayed for others.
• For those who would believe on Him through those men’s word.

He prayed that we would all be ONE, as He and the Father are on.
• And an important part of that is being ONE because of what the apostles would say about Him so we would understand HOW TO BELIEVE on Him.

It’s such a short sentence, but it says so much!
• We actually are supposed to believe on Jesus according to the word or ministry of the Apostles.

Jesus didn’t say he prayed for those who believe on him.
• He said He prayed for those who believe on Him THROUGH THOSE APOSTLES’ WORD.

How important is their word for Him to pray like that?

Many people might say they pay more attention to Jesus than the apostles.
• One person told me they heard a minister say he wasn’t going to preach from the epistles any more, because he’d rather go straight to what Jesus said alone.
• But to go by what Jesus said is to believe the way the apostles told us to believe on Him!

We cannot ignore what the apostles said if we want to believe on Jesus.
• You are actually disobeying Jesus Christ if we do.

He also said He sent them into the world as the Father sent Jesus into the world.
• How serious must Jesus be about the world hearing what the apostles had to say for Him to say He sent them in just the same level of importance that the Father sent Him?

John 17:17-19 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (18) As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. (19) And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Look at how he even sanctified Himself for THEIR SAKES!
• He prayed for them to be sanctified!
• And then Sanctified Himself for their sakes!
• He puts their word on the same level as His own word when he sent them into the world as the father sent Him to the world.

If Jesus prayed for them to be sanctified through truth, then THEY COULD NOT FAIL in their ministries. He put the seal of approval here on all they later wrote.

Do you believe the3 Father answered this prayer of Jesus?

[shazeep]

could you shorten this down to a paragraph please, just the Witness is really all i need ok. Posit a short Q if you just have to. Small bites, ok. Because you have raised 15 questions in there, possibly, see? ty

[mfblume]

How the WRITTEN WORD is the WORD OF GOD.

2 Peter 3:15 KJV And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Peter spoke about things Paul wrote.
• He said GOD gave Paul wisdom.
• And Peter was the one who walked with the Lord in the inner circle of all the apostles while Jesus was on earth.

Peter said Paul wrote some things hard to be understood.

2 Peter 3:16 KJV As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

EPISTLES are letters to the churches.
• They were already saved.
• Not telling them how to get saved but how to stay saved.
• And Peter put Paul’s words in his letters on the same level as the scriptures of the rest of the Bible.
• Their scriptures were the Old Testament.
• They were in the process of writing the New Testament when Peter said this.
• So, by scriptures Peter meant the Old Testament.
• Paul’s words were as much scripture as David’s book of Psalms and Moses’ Pentateuch, and Isaiah’s prophecies.
• Peter said AS THE OTHER scriptures, putting Paul’s in the same category.
And he said that twisting what Paul said brings a person to their own destruction!
• That can only mean that he spoke GOD’S WORD, because only twisting God’s word would bring destruction to you.

2 Peter 3:17 KJV Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

It is possible to take these scripture, misunderstand them and bring your own destruction.
• You have to RIGHTLY DIVIDE IT.

The early church had stedfastness of the apostles’ teachings.
• He warned they could get away from what apostles taught.

This thread is filled with wresting of scripture when it says the written word is not God's word.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

could you shorten this down to a paragraph please, just the Witness is really all i need ok. Posit a short Q if you just have to. Small bites, ok. Because you have raised 15 questions in there, possibly, see? ty

No.

I am presenting this for all to read and study.

It is a presentation of God's Word. It is not a discussion with you. I'm not chatting with someone who cried "wolf" too many times.

[mfblume]

1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD.

The spirit of antichrist has hated the Word made flesh as much as it hated the Word made writing. Same spirit. And men have caught that spirit, and now there are many antichrists. To deny the written word as the word of God is to wrest and pervert the intention of what the written word says.

[mfblume]

Here's what's happening. Follow the story.

Jeremiah 36:1-2 And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, (2) Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.

God's word was written down by the prophet for Israel to read.

Jeremiah 36:4 Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah: and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.

Jeremiah 36:6 Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the LORD in the ears of the people in the LORD'S house upon the fasting day: and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities.

Jeremiah 36:10-11 Then read Baruch in the book the words of Jeremiah in the house of the LORD, in the chamber of Gemariah the son of Shaphan the scribe, in the higher court, at the entry of the new gate of the LORD'S house, in the ears of all the people. (11) When Michaiah the son of Gemariah, the son of Shaphan, had heard out of the book all the words of the LORD,

Jeremiah 36:21-23 So the king sent Jehudi to fetch the roll: and he took it out of Elishama the scribe's chamber. And Jehudi read it in the ears of the king, and in the ears of all the princes which stood beside the king. (22) Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him. (23) And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.

Jeremiah 36:32 Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.

To take the written word of God and trash and burn it by saying it is not the word of God, is to move God to write more words that will judge us. And the reason there are more words is because we've just heaped upon ourselves more judgment due to rejection of the former words.

Don't make God write more for your judgment.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

John 17:6-21 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (7) Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. (8) For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. (9) I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. (10) And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. (11) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (13) And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. (14) I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. (15) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. (16) They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. (17) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (18) As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. (19) And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. (20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; (21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

This is the most extensive account in the bible of Jesus praying.
________________________________________


Jesus is coming, judgment will occur one day, and we are going to have to have obeyed the WORD.

Jesus prayed for the apostles God gave to Him.
• And then he prayed for others.
• For those who would believe on Him through those men’s word.

Nice! Notice the men were given from out of the world. And they kept the Words Christ gave them. From His mouth.
(14) I have given them thy word
(17) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth
(I sanctify myself,) that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
(20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word
This is the most extensive account in the bible of Jesus praying.

HA! How awesome is that. So, Jesus came, got some Jewish guys--surely the devoutest Jews Father had going for Him in Jerusalem, right, because that's how we would do it--given to Him, and He gave them the Word--only we just don't get the account of when He went to Zondervan, or whoever was around back then--and they kept the Words that they might be sanctified, and Christ prays for them, and whoever might be sanctified through their Word, since i guess He is going to hook them up with His Zondervan guy.

And when they write down this Word, into a Book, it is ok to still call it Word, even though anyone who read it even right then would not have the benefit of any kind of...of the frame they got with it, or Christ's inflections on the Words He was saying, never mind that they even got it in the original and we don't, we don't even have a Lex to Hebrew NT. So fine. Read what you will read there. Be sure in your own mind; but don't forget that pre-schoolers who say that mommy eats a brownie to get pregnant are sure in their own minds to ok.

Originally Posted by mfblume

He prayed that we would all be ONE, as He and the Father are on.
• And an important part of that is being ONE because of what the apostles would say about Him so we would understand HOW TO BELIEVE on Him.

It’s such a short sentence, but it says so much!
• We actually are supposed to believe on Jesus according to the word or ministry of the Apostles.

Jesus didn’t say he prayed for those who believe on him.
• He said He prayed for those who believe on Him THROUGH THOSE APOSTLES’ WORD.

How important is their word for Him to pray like that?

very. as important as any hippie with some Word, at least. Because lots of people don't like hippies, so they need to get some Word by some other means. You have some Word, too--even if you're not doing it right now, because Words = breath, the breath is needed for words, which may or may not be Word, because Word is Truth, and the best we can prolly do is "word is truth," most of the time...but there are signs, many signs--when you got some Word, or even said some Word--that i already mentioned, that can be compared to when you read some Book, and see what the signs tell you then. See how your dog reacts to one, and then the other. See if the kids stop playing in the other room and come stand in the middle of that
Let's all look real quick at a passage of Word, that i'm about to make up, which i'll say it out loud so that is true on every level here, just to be correct--"When you start reading from the Book, the kids are running, all right; they are definitely quickened."

(and we'll just save the part in parenthesis for another thread maybe, another day)

cont'd