Women Cutting Their Hair, Please Help.

[Sam]

When I came here to SW Ohio in the spring of 1957, many of the women and teen age girls in the local UPC church had "long" hair. This church was pastored by the Dist. Supt. Bro. F.E. Curts. At that time it was taught among the ladies that putting your hair up tightly in bobby pins could keep it from getting too long and also that hot curling irons could burn it to keep it from getting too long. A teenage girl (who was to later become my wife) who was a new Christian was "shocked" when her cousin (currently a UPC pastor's wife) and the pastor's granddaughter both got their hair "trimmed" for youth camp. Some believed that trimming was OK because it was not really cutting.

[Theresa]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

LoL. It wasn't in the form of a question. I asked you to share your journey from con to lib. You don't have to. Or you can PM me.. whatevah.. it's your call.

his journey?

nahhh - his wife said so, so he did ROFL!!!!!!!!

[Tech]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

It's as pitiful as Atlanta Bishop's son who encountered a UPCI girl at camp and showed him her baby she had out of wedlock ... while stating ... "At least I didn't cut my hair"

That is pitifull Dan.But when 4 out of 5 messages these children here preached are about standards, their understanding about what is right and wrong becomes distorted.

There is so much time spent preaching about how a person should look, that the important issues in a persons life are neglected.

I had these things drilled so deep into my head that it took me years to get past them.Even after i realized that they were not biblical truths.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Theresa

his journey?

nahhh - his wife said so, so he did ROFL!!!!!!!!

CC1,

What is your response to this accusation??

[Trouvere]

To God everything means something.Its that heart He is looking at.I would never try to suppose what He is thinking.Its not just hair when someone has vowed a vow.Paul vowed a vow and then later shaved when he completed his vow,did God say it was just hair?Sampsons strengh was his uncut hair.Why did his uncut hair give him strength and when it was cut he had none? I am not thinking the magic hair doctrine but I know the word does not lie and that when the hair grew back and his vow was again in place along came the annointing and strength.Guess what? He did not cut his own hair but he did play with his vow and gamble it away as unimportant.So is it just hair to God? I don't know.So because of this I don't veer into areas that I consider the marriage bed of God.The intimate place where promises are made and covenants are born.I would never ever step there.Its not a good thing to under mine anyones dedication or consecrations.God just may like them.I don't dress in a dress to my neck and wear a veil but if my sister does who knows if God doesn't like what she does for him? Some places are sacred places and altars of self sacrifice and dying to self will.I worry about myself and what my sister does or doesn't do is not my concern.I also don't want to be a stumbling
block for anyone.That will anger the Lord for sure.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Tech

That is pitifull Dan.But when 4 out of 5 messages these children here preached are about standards, their understanding about what is right and wrong becomes distorted.

There is so much time spent preaching about how a person should look, that the important issues in a persons life are neglected.

I had these things drilled so deep into my head that it took me years to get past them.Even after i realized that they were not biblical truths.

Wow Tech, well said. I was the same way. My pastors growing up were very balanced with preaching. Although most of the messages touched on "righteous living." I have heard my former pastor say that if you even "mess around" before marriage you are a "whoremunger." That is how hard he preached somethings. I have heard a UPC pastor at a church I attended that TV is a sin.

I agree 100% that there is not enough preaching on other topics that accually are cause and affect in our lives. I have been in this Oneness Pentecostal movement for over 20 yrs and I have only heard maybe 3 messages on sex in that marriage. I have heard alot about sex outside marriage, but not many on how sex in the marriage is healthy, etc. Ya feel?

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

To God everything means something.Its that heart He is looking at.I would never try to suppose what He is thinking.Its not just hair when someone has vowed a vow.Paul vowed a vow and then later shaved when he completed his vow,did God say it was just hair?Sampsons strengh was his uncut hair.Why did his uncut hair give him strength and when it was cut he had none? I am not thinking the magic hair doctrine but I know the word does not lie and that when the hair grew back and his vow was again in place along came the annointing and strength.Guess what? He did not cut his own hair but he did play with his vow and gamble it away as unimportant.So is it just hair to God? I don't know.So because of this I don't veer into areas that I consider the marriage bed of God.The intimate place where promises are made and covenants are born.I would never ever step there.Its not a good thing to under mine anyones dedication or consecrations.God just may like them.I don't dress in a dress to my neck and wear a veil but if my sister does who knows if God doesn't like what she does for him? Some places are sacred places and altars of self sacrifice and dying to self will.I worry about myself and what my sister does or doesn't do is not my concern.I also don't want to be a stumbling
block for anyone.That will anger the Lord for sure.

Trouvere, you say Samsons strength was in his UNCUT hair. How do you know that his hair wasn't cut? Read my previuos post.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Samson was a nazarite from what I understand. A jewish boy will have his head shaved at his Bar-mizvah when he turns 13. A Nazarite would not shave his head if he had a nazarite vow. The story of Samson was that he was not to have a razor to his head, not that he wasn't allowed to cut his hair with shears, there is a difference between allowing a razor to come to your hair, and allowing shears (or scissors) to come to your hair. I hope this helps. see Judges 13:5 It says razor, not shears according to the custom of the Jewish Nazarite vow.

*bump for ILG*

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Sam

A site that addresses this and some other issues is:
http://www.actseighteen.com/

The hair issue is addressed in:
http://www.actseighteen.com/articles/uncuthair.htm

Thank you sir.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Samson was a nazarite from what I understand. A jewish boy will have his head shaved at his Bar-mizvah when he turns 13. A Nazarite would not shave his head if he had a nazarite vow. The story of Samson was that he was not to have a razor to his head, not that he wasn't allowed to cut his hair with shears, there is a difference between allowing a razor to come to your hair, and allowing shears (or scissors) to come to your hair. I hope this helps. see Judges 13:5 It says razor, not shears according to the custom of the Jewish Nazarite vow.

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Trouvere, you say Samsons strength was in his UNCUT hair. How do you know that his hair wasn't cut? Read my previuos post.

It seems to me once again you are trying to fit the bible into your paradigm ... brother Eastman ... I can't find any biblical, theological or rabbinical support that the Nazarite vow did allow for cutting of hair of any sorts ... you are allowing your Jimmy English KJV once again predicate your doctrine

Wiki:

Being a nazirite

This vow required the man or woman to observe the following:

• Abstain from wine, wine vinegar, grapes, raisins, and according - to some alcohol and vinegar from alcohol;
• Refrain from cutting the hair on one's head;
• Avoid corpses and graves, even those of family members, and any structure which contains such.

It is also forbidden for the nazirite to have grape, or grape derivatives even if they are not alcoholic. According to Rabbinical interpretation there is no prohibition for the nazirite to drink alcoholic beverages not derived from grapes.[12] According to non-Rabbinical interpretation a Nazarite is forbidden to consume any alcohol, and vinegar from such alcohol, regardless of its source. The laws of wine or grapes mixing in other food is similar to other dietary laws that apply to all Jews.[13]

A nazirite can groom his hair with his hand or scratch his head and needn’t be concerned if some hair falls out. However a nazirite cannot comb his hair since it is a near certainty to pull out some hair. A nazirite is not allowed to use a chemical depilatory that will remove hair.[14] A nazirite that recovers from Tzaraath, a skin disease described in Leviticus 14, is obligated to cut his hair despite being a nazirite.


The nazirite (except for a Samson-like nazirite as stated above) may not become ritually impure by a dead body. This includes not being under the same roof as a corpse. However a nazirite can contract other kinds of ritual impurity. A nazirite that finds an unburied corpse is obligated to bury it, even though he will become defiled in the process.[15]
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In Judge 16 ... Samson uses the word razor however in the hebrew it is in the sense and tense of shearing .... using the word transliterated word mo-raw

hrwm from (04171) in the sense of shearing


So he told her all that was in his heart and said to her, "A razor has never come on my head, for I have been a Nazirite to God from my mother's womb. If I am shaved, then my strength will leave * me and I will become weak and be like any other man."