How do you almost receive a gift?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Sasha

But unless you know all languages, how can you tell if it's stammering or a true language, and does that really matter?

I've heard others speak in their native tongue and sound like nothing but gibberish. Ever heard Chinese?

Again, stammering is evident. As Real Realism just described, much stammering is "lalalala" or some other stutter. Every person I've heard speak in tongues did so with clarity. There was no stammer in it.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by Real Realism

lol - more like

But, no, really. In my mind I've tried to rationalize it. You know how the languages in Africa where they use tongue clicks. Maybe there's some "lalalalala" language where the number of "lala"s means different things. But then I just realize I'm grasping at straws to try to justify it within the construct that we've created in our Pentecostal narrative.

But again, is it the hearer who determines whether or not someone has spoke in tongues? In Acts 2, it's reported that over 3000 souls were saved (meaning spoke in tongues) that day. How did the writer know that, interview them all, listen to them all, what? I really want to know!

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by n david

Again, stammering is evident. As Real Realism just described, much stammering is "lalalala" or some other stutter. Every person I've heard speak in tongues did so with clarity. There was no stammer in it.

I'll ask you the same question. Is it the hearer's opinion of what's heard that determines if someone really spoke in tongues or not? What of those who speak in tongues but are alone? What about mutes?

See, now I'm asking more and more questions!

[n david]

Originally Posted by Sasha

I'll ask you the same question. Is it the hearer's opinion of what's heard that determines if someone really spoke in tongues or not? What of those who speak in tongues but are alone? What about mutes?

See, now I'm asking more and more questions!

No, it's whether they spoke in tongues or just had stammering lips.

If they spoke in tongues alone, they still spoke in tongues.

I witnessed one mute speak in tongues...guess what? She spoke in tongues. She didn't do weird hand signals; she opened her mouth and in a loud and clear voice spoke in tongues.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

No, it's whether they spoke in tongues or just had stammering lips.

If they spoke in tongues alone, they still spoke in tongues.

I witnessed one mute speak in tongues...guess what? She spoke in tongues. She didn't do weird hand signals; she opened her mouth and in a loud and clear voice spoke in tongues.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by n david

No, it's whether they spoke in tongues or just had stammering lips.

If they spoke in tongues alone, they still spoke in tongues.

I witnessed one mute speak in tongues...guess what? She spoke in tongues. She didn't do weird hand signals; she opened her mouth and in a loud and clear voice spoke in tongues.

But how do THEY know they spoke in tongues or just had stammering lips, assuming they don't know what stammering lips even is?

And I've heard of mutes speaking in tongues. I think it's great. I've also seen many deaf get discouraged because they cannot 'meet the requirements' the speaking world demands in order to be saved.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Sasha

But how do THEY know they spoke in tongues or just had stammering lips, assuming they don't know what stammering lips even is?

And I've heard of mutes speaking in tongues. I think it's great. I've also seen many deaf get discouraged because they cannot 'meet the requirements' the speaking world demands in order to be saved.

I've never seen anyone, having stammering lips, not know the difference. They experienced a touch of God and wanted that to happen more. I've never told someone they haven't received the Holy Ghost, because with the stammering lips, they are uttering something, it's just so barely audible. My son also had that experience-at least two barely audible words. I knew he had the Holy Ghost by how he acted thereafter. I can imaging that happening also in the Upper Room.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Real Realism

But, no, really. In my mind I've tried to rationalize it. You know how the languages in Africa where they use tongue clicks. Maybe there's some "lalalalala" language where the number of "lala"s means different things. But then I just realize I'm grasping at straws to try to justify it within the construct that we've created in our Pentecostal narrative.

Wow! simply wow!

That's an ignorant perception that floats around. People living in COUNTRIES on the CONTINENT of Africa speak languages that consists of syllables, words, etc. and can be written in letters.

carry on...

[Real Realism]

How is that an ignorant perception? I didn't say that it was a language that could not be written down. Just that it was one example of a language that simply doesn't follow the linguistic pattern that we're familiar with in the Euro-Western culture. Or in Asian culture (which we're more familiar with because of the globalized influence of China and Japan). The "tongue clicking" consonant is an articulation that does not exist in Germanic and Latin languages. It doesn't mean it's not as valid a language as any other around the globe. That's the point.

[shazeep]

ok, has anyone noted yet that the 'stammering lips' being referred to has nothing whatever to do with speaking in tongues? I mean, please? That is how the Philistines or whomever, Romans, i don't remember, that took over Jerusalem, spoke Aramaic or Hebrew or whatever; with 'stammering lips.' I'm wondering how i had no idea all these years that the 'tongue-tied' had usurped this verse lol.