So Prax... what is the 'line'? What is the basis for unity? Or, what should the basis for unity be, rather?
If you're Oneness, you baptise people in Jesus name, and you believe in tongues as initial evidence of Holy Ghost baptism... the rest is all non-essential?
"Gay apostolics', anyone? Full preterism? Hyper dispensationalism (Jews have their own plan of salvation, a la John Hagee)? Name it and Claim it? Shouldn't really matter what you teach or believe as to the meaning of 'born again' or 'regeneration'? What about entire sanctification? Antinomianism? Theonomy? Universalism? Supralapsarian predestination? Double predestination? KJV-only? Pre-mid-post trib? No trib? Pastor Tribble? (WHAT??? Did I say that? lol)
Is it really just finding a few things as the lowest common denominator, and the rest is ultimately irrelevent?
And what about Paul? What about the Bible when it says we should all speak the same thing and be of the same mind? We should at least be moving towards that, right? Or is that 'divisive'? Or should we all just speak the same thing in regards to a few 'essentials' (who decides what that is?) and just be silent about everything else?
So Prax... what is the 'line'? What is the basis for unity? Or, what should the basis for unity be, rather?
If you're Oneness, you baptise people in Jesus name, and you believe in tongues as initial evidence of Holy Ghost baptism... the rest is all non-essential?
"Gay apostolics', anyone? Full preterism? Hyper dispensationalism (Jews have their own plan of salvation, a la John Hagee)? Name it and Claim it? Shouldn't really matter what you teach or believe as to the meaning of 'born again' or 'regeneration'? What about entire sanctification? Antinomianism? Theonomy? Universalism? Supralapsarian predestination? Double predestination? KJV-only? Pre-mid-post trib? No trib? Pastor Tribble? (WHAT??? Did I say that? lol)
Is it really just finding a few things as the lowest common denominator, and the rest is ultimately irrelevent?
And what about Paul? What about the Bible when it says we should all speak the same thing and be of the same mind? We should at least be moving towards that, right? Or is that 'divisive'? Or should we all just speak the same thing in regards to a few 'essentials' (who decides what that is?) and just be silent about everything else?
Inquiring minds want to know...
Yes, Inquiring minds want to know. And a few of those beliefs I would have to look up. And looking at the list, I don't think that Jesus, Peter or Paul would allow any of that. If that is what they want to believe, we can't stop them, but they should not be allowed to teach those things in any Bible believing church.
So Prax... what is the 'line'? What is the basis for unity? Or, what should the basis for unity be, rather?
If you're Oneness, you baptise people in Jesus name, and you believe in tongues as initial evidence of Holy Ghost baptism... the rest is all non-essential?
"Gay apostolics', anyone? Full preterism? Hyper dispensationalism (Jews have their own plan of salvation, a la John Hagee)? Name it and Claim it? Shouldn't really matter what you teach or believe as to the meaning of 'born again' or 'regeneration'? What about entire sanctification? Antinomianism? Theonomy? Universalism? Supralapsarian predestination? Double predestination? KJV-only? Pre-mid-post trib? No trib? Pastor Tribble? (WHAT??? Did I say that? lol)
Is it really just finding a few things as the lowest common denominator, and the rest is ultimately irrelevent?
And what about Paul? What about the Bible when it says we should all speak the same thing and be of the same mind? We should at least be moving towards that, right? Or is that 'divisive'? Or should we all just speak the same thing in regards to a few 'essentials' (who decides what that is?) and just be silent about everything else?
Inquiring minds want to know...
Unity to organize an organization? I'd say what it was at the merger
Or are you speaking of a line we draw to snub others?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
The UPCI has gone thru a pretty difficult streatch but seriously it is not all doom and gloom.
The guys that were in charge during the worst of it are dead and gone. As some others have pointed out, the hard liners have left or are leaving. The rebelrousers started a wrestling federation to beat people up in and the liberals are/have left as well.
What is left is an organization that is smaller for sure but in some ways more moderate.
What is really odd to me is that all this talk has come up right now before this particular GC in which the UPCI HAS ON THE TABLE A MOTION TO REMOVE ANY REFERENCE TO TELEVISION FROM THE MANUAL!
serously people, we are talking about how awful the UPCI is today...how conservative it is...TODAY.... right when the org is making moves to moderate?
its almost like the guys who have been "claiming" they want change really are just trying to sabatoge. What do they really want? implosion?
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Papa George was one of the kindest and most caring ministers that I knew in Louisiana. If a lot of the folks that get their "panties all in a wad" on AFF had the same spirit as Papa George, why you wouldn't recognize AFF.
Just my opinion!!!
Been Thinkin
Papa George was a prince. Such a gentle spirit. When his home church decided to honor him, we had a big service to honor him and install him as Pastor Emeritis. (sp)
When the service started, he was nowhere to be found! They went looking for him and when they found him he was hiding and he told them he wasnt worthy of that and that they just needed to not worry about him!
He came to our house many times and would tuck me in bed as a small kid and say my prayers with me. Precious memories.
Way back when he pastored in DeRidder, a lady started coming to church. Her husband was a hard man. One sunday evening before church, the man came to the church and threatend to beat Papa George up. Papa George went out behind the church with the man who expected a fight.
Papa George just stood there and the man asked him what he was doing? Papa George told him, "im just waiting on you. If you feel you need to beat me up go ahead I wont stop you. I will pray for you".
The man started crying and never tried to stop his wife from attending. He eventually started coming with her and became a member of the church.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Thanks, Ferd. That explains things perfectly. I think. LOL! Is he saying he didn't think you could make it to heaven without the Holy Ghost and thought everyone believed that was well?
Pressing, that was his way. He believed in the spirit of the merger. He believed, preached and taught young ministers that you needed to be filled with the HG and baptized in Jesus name TO BE SAVED.
but he also understood the fellowship. He said what he said because it was a statement that everyone of the era could agree with. it was the "common ground". It was what they all preached and in the end, as was his way he defused the situation with a kind word.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
The UPCI has gone thru a pretty difficult streatch but seriously it is not all doom and gloom.
The guys that were in charge during the worst of it are dead and gone. As some others have pointed out, the hard liners have left or are leaving. The rebelrousers started a wrestling federation to beat people up in and the liberals are/have left as well.
What is left is an organization that is smaller for sure but in some ways more moderate.
What is really odd to me is that all this talk has come up right now before this particular GC in which the UPCI HAS ON THE TABLE A MOTION TO REMOVE ANY REFERENCE TO TELEVISION FROM THE MANUAL!
serously people, we are talking about how awful the UPCI is today...how conservative it is...TODAY.... right when the org is making moves to moderate?
its almost like the guys who have been "claiming" they want change really are just trying to sabatoge. What do they really want? implosion?
Yes! They want it gone, extinct, cease to exist. The bitter have been hurt so bad by the "Mother Ship" that the only reconciliation for them is for the organization to die on the vine.
I remember a thread a year or so ago on here where this was being discussed and someone was railing against the UPC for all these rules and I brought up the same point you did, things are changing. Then I laid out the question, what if all the things your against are repealed, would you go back? Would the org be ok for you then? .. I got a, NO.
There is so much discontent in some that it darkens any spiritual light they could hope to shine. They will become as the UPC is to them, irrelevant.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
Papa George was one of the kindest and most caring ministers that I knew in Louisiana. If a lot of the folks that get their "panties all in a wad" on AFF had the same spirit as Papa George, why you wouldn't recognize AFF.
Just my opinion!!!
Been Thinkin
Back to the DeQincy Story!
When Pastor Bennet died, the church was rocked. As soon as he passed, people started lining up to his heir as he had none. Well all the sudden this lady steps forward with the will and says she is his wife. LOL.
Total train wreck. No one saw it comeing (except my grandfather who was already dead).
Let me tell you that it was pure pandimonium. and the church was already filled with factions and after that it just got worse.
They couldnt come to any kind of agreement on who the next pastor would be.
Papa George wen there as interum to handle the transition. Ive already talked about his gentlness and kindness. But there was iron in the man too!
After several preachers were tried out, they would vote and the vote would be split. one side would find out what the other was doing, and they would vote against that side.
Papa George got tired of it. He brought in David Hennigan and then when he called the vote, he told them the vote would be held the morning after an all night prayer meeting. He gave them the time to be at the church the night before, and he told them the doors would be locked at a certain point. Anyone not in the building when the doors were locked would not vote! LOL
He also walked around the prayer meeting and made sure everyone was praying. Ive heard (cannot verify) that he also threatend those that were there but not praying that they wouldnt be allowed to vote!
Pastor Hennigan won the election with a BIG majority. He went on to be a fanstastic pastor and the church was greatly blessed.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Papa George was one of the kindest and most caring ministers that I knew in Louisiana. If a lot of the folks that get their "panties all in a wad" on AFF had the same spirit as Papa George, why you wouldn't recognize AFF.
Just my opinion!!!
Been Thinkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty
Yes! They want it gone, extinct, cease to exist. The bitter have been hurt so bad by the "Mother Ship" that the only reconciliation for them is for the organization to die on the vine.
I remember a thread a year or so ago on here where this was being discussed and someone was railing against the UPC for all these rules and I brought up the same point you did, things are changing. Then I laid out the question, what if all the things your against are repealed, would you go back? Would the org be ok for you then? .. I got a, NO.
There is so much discontent in some that it darkens any spiritual light they could hope to shine. They will become as the UPC is to them, irrelevant.
Scotty, sadly I agree with you 100%. I get that some folks got hurt. I’m talking about the preachers here…. Talking about saints that got abused by absurdly controlling so-called-men-of-god is another thing all together.
But those that really did get hurt and who were really good men, went on to build and create. It’s just weird that you have this other group, who have done very little building and a whole lot of being bitter who are still trying to tear down.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Bro Marlor speaks very highly of George Glass. I know I saw a message by him the other day on either Apostolic Vault or Apostolic Classics. I'll have to try to listen to it.
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