Questions about Eternity:

[Aquila]

As for marriage…

Most believe that marriage as an institution will not be found in eternity based on Christ’s words. I tend to agree. The institution of marriage exists for the purpose of providing justice towards all parties involved, especially when people pro-create. Since I question if pro-creation will be necessary in eternity I highly doubt it will be necessary.

However, this doesn’t mean that spouses will not know each other or love one another in eternity. Their intimacy will be much deeper than what we experience here in our present world. Physical intimacy will not be needed because having glorified bodies those hormonal impulses most likely will not exist. Older couples who are incapable of physical intimacy demonstrate a love beyond such needs.

But in a sense…there is marriage in Heaven. There is the marriage between Christ and the Bride. We’ll all exist in an eternal covenantal relationship centered on Jesus and pleasing Him as eternity unfolds.

Some have argued that Christ’s words leave the possibility for marriage. Christ said that in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage. Those who argue for marriage in eternity state that Christ’s words were meant to indicate that people don’t arrange marriages nor are people given in arranged marriages. Instead, our partners in eternity will be left to our own discretion. Those who never found their soul mate will have an opportunity to do so. Some point to a reference to "offspring" in the New Earth in Isaiah 65. But the interpretation leaves many questions. I find this interpretation problematic. So I do not advocate for believing it. But... I don't believe it's a major issue if one chooses to. Because the very same God who designed the joys and pleasures of physical intimacy and marriage will have created the New Creation. No doubt something better awaits us.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Can you imagine the joy of knowing that your spouse is being punished in eternal torment, and justly so?

Great, but sobering, point. We also read:

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Evidently there are tears in the New Creation, else what would God wipe away? Maybe these tears are for having loved ones lost. I mean, what else would their be to weep over? God's promise here is that He will personally comfort us as we learn to cope with this loss and move on into the joys He has in store for us. In truth, we can be assured that we will understand why such things were so as time goes on.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Well, I just had another thought. What about that scripture where Jesus says that there will be no marriage, or giving in marriage in heaven? I wonder that meant.... but can you imagine Aquila, after your definition of being able to spend time with your spouse...

There will be marriage in eternity... a covenantal marriage between Jesus and the entire Bride of Christ. We'll all share in that covenant. However, marriage as the institution we know today will not exist. Many wonder about the need for physical intimacy in eternity. I like to remind people that the very same God who designed physical intimacy creats the New Creation. No doubt something better awaits us. Something more blessed and pure than what earthly hormones produce in our fallen existence.

what about all the divorces, and remarriages and such? What a mess that would be. I guess we won't know all of it until that time comes, but .... just some thoughts I was just having... questions... thinking about it all...

No mess really. All "marriages" will have ended once eternity begins. Friendships and deep intimate relationships will no doubt continue. However, we shall learn many things and with regards to divorce and remarriage... I highly doubt we'd be petty enough to resent one another or hold grudges. We'll see each other as redeemed human beings who were enslaved to sin and temptation.

If I saw my ex-wife in glory, I'd not care if I saw a second husband too. By that time all these issues will not matter. Imagine if we could live on this level of grace and forgiveness right now...what kind of relationships and friendships would we have with people who have wronged us in some way?

So, I don't see divorces or remarriages as being an issue in eternity.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Aquila

There will be marriage in eternity... a covenantal marriage between Jesus and the entire Bride of Christ. We'll all share in that covenant. However, marriage as the institution we know today will not exist. Many wonder about the need for physical intimacy in eternity. I like to remind people that the very same God who designed physical intimacy creats the New Creation. No doubt something better awaits us. Something more blessed and pure than what earthly hormones produce in our fallen existence.



No mess really. All "marriages" will have ended once eternity begins. Friendships and deep intimate relationships will no doubt continue. However, we shall learn many things and with regards to divorce and remarriage... I highly doubt we'd be petty enough to resent one another or hold grudges. We'll see each other as redeemed human beings who were enslaved to sin and temptation.

If I saw my ex-wife in glory, I'd not care if I saw a second husband too. By that time all these issues will not matter. Imagine if we could live on this level of grace and forgiveness right now...what kind of relationships and friendships would we have with people who have wronged us in some way?

So, I don't see divorces or remarriages as being an issue in eternity.

You make some good points... will continue to ponder

[Aquila]

So... I wonder... can the Christoplatonists offer a better description of eternity???

[bbyrd009]

I would say "different." There is a sense in which it is true, just as there is obviously description of actual future things in Scripture. Yes that will happen corporately someday, but God is a God of I AM, and there is a sense in which you are not in Heaven yet only because you are waiting to die to get there..

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes. An entire city can be decked out in finest gold and beauty in preparation for her debut as headquarters of the Universe. Ships are said to have a "maiden voyage". Are they really "maidens"? Of course not. It's imagery used to describe the city, it's inhabitants, and it's coming role in the New Creation.



Ah... you make a lot of assumptions in the above post. For example, you make the assumption that it actually "touches down". It may hover for eternity, John doesn't tell us. Also, you forget that this is a New Creation. If the city IS that big and touches down on earth... the implication would be that the New Earth is also quite larger than our present world. You're assuming that things will be as they are now. You can't gage eternal realities by this present world that you can see.

Bro. Without a patronizing response, There are hebrew cultural ways and manners of speaking that it is arrogant western thinking that moves us to assume we know exactly what Rev 21 is referring to. Isa 51:16 for one.

Any popular idea should be highly suspect. My flesh is fascinated by awesome sounding ideas, but they are more often than not misunderstandings of the prophets. What appeals to the flesh ought to be a red flag.

There are so many parallels with 2 Cor 5 in Rev 21 that more careful study is required. When we get sidetracked away from the kingdom in the here and now, unhealthy results occur.

[bbyrd009]

I would have to agree that we should not become sidetracked in the here and now-it strikes me as impossible, but I'll have to think about that. However, when the kingdom becomes a distant reward, in some afterlife, but maybe not for you, it is completely dead. Here and now is all you are ever going to have. Ever. Understand I AM. You cannot explain I AM anywhen else.

That dream we have in our mind is just that, a dream, an interpretation that can only be compared to the common understanding of prophecy of Christ's first coming at the time. When one focuses on a distant someday, their center can only be unhealthfully displaced forward in time.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Bro. Without a patronizing response, There are hebrew cultural ways and manners of speaking that it is arrogant western thinking that moves us to assume we know exactly what Rev 21 is referring to. Isa 51:16 for one.

Any popular idea should be highly suspect. My flesh is fascinated by awesome sounding ideas, but they are more often than not misunderstandings of the prophets. What appeals to the flesh ought to be a red flag.

There are so many parallels with 2 Cor 5 in Rev 21 that more careful study is required. When we get sidetracked away from the kingdom in the here and now, unhealthy results occur.

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

I would have to agree that we should not become sidetracked in the here and now-it strikes me as impossible, but I'll have to think about that. However, when the kingdom becomes a distant reward, in some afterlife, but maybe not for you, it is completely dead. Here and now is all you are ever going to have. Ever. Understand I AM. You cannot explain I AM anywhen else.

That dream we have in our mind is just that, a dream, an interpretation that can only be compared to the common understanding of prophecy of Christ's first coming at the time. When one focuses on a distant someday, their center can only be unhealthfully displaced forward in time.

2 Peter 3:13-14
13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

I'm looking for it with hope and expectancy. Looking for these things assists me with my identity. My citizenship is not of this time and place. My citizenship is... there. I am an insurgent. I am here to tell people of a real and coming kingdom.

One day our concrete overpasses and steel girdered skyscrapers will sway and buckle in the hot wake of Christ's return. All of this world will be burned up. And a new creation will be established in it's place. Christ's return might happen before midnight tonight, or it may be tomorrow. We don't know. But we know one thing... it is coming. And the only way you or I can assure ourselves a place in that kingdom is to be found in Christ Jesus.

I fear that we place all our hopes and dreams on the here and now... because we don't have faith to see Eternity. We'd rather focus on the things we can see. The things we can enfluence. The things we have a greater chance to control. It's comforting to do so. But to have faith that one day we'll inheret a city unlike anything creation has ever seen, in a world of absolute righteousness. Now... that takes some faith.

Don't get me wrong... I do believe that the spiritual aspects of our eternal kingdom are available now. However, I think God intended more than just what we can see. A world better than this one. This world is a war torn ghetto compared to what awaits us.

[Aquila]

It amazes me that so many can claim they believe the following:

God made the heavens and the earth in six days
Noah built an ark and saved man and beast from being extinguished by a global flood
Moses parted the Red Sea with God's power
Jonah survivied three days and nights in the belly of a whale
Prophets told the future for ages to come
A man was also God
This God/man healed the sick, cast out demons, and raised the dead
This God/man walked on water and calmed the storm
This God/man fed over 5,000 people with five loaves and two fishes
This God/man could die for the sins of the entire world
This God/man arose from the dead three days later
This God/man ascended into Heaven.
This God/man is returning again over 2,000 years later

Yet... they can't believe that the New Jerusalem is a reality that will one day invade time and space.

It puzzles me.