Your responses will surely get this forum excited as you assume no one is prayerful, no one loves holiness and no one cares for the things of God but those who believe it exactly as you've been taught it.
Take a look at the bathroom signs at any store or restaurant. Apparently in our day and age, still a women in a dress means female and a man in pants means male..... I have yet to see a women's restroom with a picture of the woman on the door in pants.
You know, this got me thinking. I know the bathrooms where I work don't have pictures. I can't think of a single place I frequent that does. All of the signs I can think of, and know for sure I'm right about, are just words. And having 4 children, I happen to see the bathroom in most places. There are a few I can't picture in my mind to know for sure, I'll have to try to remember to check them next time we visit.
What would such a cultural shift do to this argument?
__________________
You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
I don't presume anything in what I wrote... I simply state for many "Apostolic Anonymous" approach scripture from a deconstruction mindset and what is can be thrown out. I believe we should be endevouring to add to our devotion and consecration... not subtracting..
I don't say that from a legalistic mindset, but just practical. I am not a hardline, right winger.. however I do believe what the Bible says about Gender distinction... I don't think God has changed his mind.... he still hates homosexuality.. the sin.. the act... the spirit... sure he loves the sinner... however he hates the whole "homosexual" paradigm.
He made men and women different. Equipment, temperament, emotive makeup.
Girls and Boys should be encouraged in those things that are distinctively boys and girls.
In this homosexualized culture, the church should be even more so aware of our need to be vigilant. If women ever had long hair, long dresses and a feminine deportment it would be now.... because it is so counter culture to the sensual, sexual and perverse culture.
To argue against this basic premise and ideal demonstrates a lack of understanding.
(And yes I am saying if you disagree with me you are wrong... that is the whole idea of arguing a point. I believe intently what I am saying... and believe it enough to put my name on it.)
My name is scott phillips and I support this message.
HAHA. I like you.
Scott, we shouldn't subtract from it OR add to it. So if we realize we've added to it, then YES -- we should subtract that, because it was never it. Make sense?
Your alarm with homosexuality, I get it. To say women that wear pants are pushing gay culture is quite a logical stretch that I don't think you'll find many takers. Look around you -- not just your church, your world. Do you really believe that?
I don't presume anything in what I wrote... I simply state for many "Apostolic Anonymous" approach scripture from a deconstruction mindset and what is can be thrown out. I believe we should be endevouring to add to our devotion and consecration... not subtracting..
I don't say that from a legalistic mindset, but just practical. I am not a hardline, right winger.. however I do believe what the Bible says about Gender distinction... I don't think God has changed his mind.... he still hates homosexuality.. the sin.. the act... the spirit... sure he loves the sinner... however he hates the whole "homosexual" paradigm.
He made men and women different. Equipment, temperament, emotive makeup.
Girls and Boys should be encouraged in those things that are distinctively boys and girls.
In this homosexualized culture, the church should be even more so aware of our need to be vigilant. If women ever had long hair, long dresses and a feminine deportment it would be now.... because it is so counter culture to the sensual, sexual and perverse culture.
I agree with you! But I don't believe it's just particular items of clothing that need to be addressed, nor do I think they are the problem. Modesty demands certain styles of clothing for some situations, and I view modesty as more important than visible gender distinction. (distinction being secondary, and followed by what is culturally appropriate)
Quote:
To argue against this basic premise and ideal demonstrates a lack of understanding.
(And yes I am saying if you disagree with me you are wrong... that is the whole idea of arguing a point. I believe intently what I am saying... and believe it enough to put my name on it.)
My name is scott phillips and I support this message.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I don't presume anything in what I wrote... I simply state for many "Apostolic Anonymous" approach scripture from a deconstruction mindset and what is can be thrown out. I believe we should be endevouring to add to our devotion and consecration... not subtracting..
I don't say that from a legalistic mindset, but just practical. I am not a hardline, right winger.. however I do believe what the Bible says about Gender distinction... I don't think God has changed his mind.... he still hates homosexuality.. the sin.. the act... the spirit... sure he loves the sinner... however he hates the whole "homosexual" paradigm.
He made men and women different. Equipment, temperament, emotive makeup.
Girls and Boys should be encouraged in those things that are distinctively boys and girls.
In this homosexualized culture, the church should be even more so aware of our need to be vigilant. If women ever had long hair, long dresses and a feminine deportment it would be now.... because it is so counter culture to the sensual, sexual and perverse culture.
To argue against this basic premise and ideal demonstrates a lack of understanding.
(And yes I am saying if you disagree with me you are wrong... that is the whole idea of arguing a point. I believe intently what I am saying... and believe it enough to put my name on it.)
My name is scott phillips and I support this message.
Generally good post, except the part highlighted. LOL
My wife can fix a tractor faster then I can fix a flat on my car. I bought her a (nice) cordless power tool set for Christmas a few years ago that she uses constantly. (She even took apart the big swing set we got with our new house and built a bunch of patio furniture with it. LOL)
This is a good post, and I share most of your views--but is what you stated above a strong enough foundation for calling pants on a woman a SIN? It's okay to deny someone's faith in Christ because they wear an item of clothing some view as exclusively masculine?
Sis, I can't say if it will send them to hell or not, all I can say is this....
Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.
Hbr 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
James 4:17 really does guide me in a ton of things I choose. I don't go to any restaurant that sells alcoholic beverages at all, because I know that it personally convicts me, so for me it would be sin. But for someone else, it may not.
Does that help clarify?
__________________ Brother Todd "That I may know Him... -Ephesian 3:10"
You know, this got me thinking. I know the bathrooms where I work don't have pictures. I can't think of a single place I frequent that does. All of the signs I can think of, and know for sure I'm right about, are just words. And having 4 children, I happen to see the bathroom in most places. There are a few I can't picture in my mind to know for sure, I'll have to try to remember to check them next time we visit.
What would such a cultural shift do to this argument?
That symbol argument has always been there. Since Victorian times, this was the major distinction, and since those pictures aren't 3-D, that outline is the most ideal. Men don't wear skirts so it's quite noticeable that both genders are represented.
I worry about that sign changing, as we get into a unisex society.
However, this is a desperate argument to support the idea that pants are a cause for disfellowship.
People love to throw around the word 'holiness' and insist that we need to stick with it. Well, I don't think anyone would deny that. The problem comes when we start defining 'holiness'. My preference is to use the Bible, and the Bible only, to do that. Many others prefer to use the Bible with heavy doses of tradition.
The Old Paths... which old paths? The paths that were used back when the UPC was first formed? Or the more recent old paths? Or the BIBLICAL old paths???
Sis, I can't say if it will send them to hell or not, all I can say is this....
Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.
Hbr 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
James 4:17 really does guide me in a ton of things I choose. I don't go to any restaurant that sells alcoholic beverages at all, because I know that it personally convicts me, so for me it would be sin. But for someone else, it may not.
Does that help clarify?
Well, that certainly helps understand convictions. But for another, most restaurants that are interested in being around have a bar area, or serve liquor. What then? Our world is changing, and the tidy fences resurrected in the 40's and 50's won't cut it. People will need an understanding to live a life of Holiness before God, and working out their own salvation with fear and trembling. Some of our standards have become relics, and have the same danger.
and they also provide a masculinity to women, in my personal beliefs. Listen, I'm not here to condemn anyone else's personal convictions and standards, but as I read the Scriptures, I see that men and women are not created equally, they are both very different genders and roles. Clothing is a major way to communicate gender identity within a society, and even in the Old Testament, it was obvious that clothing demonstrated gender identity, and therefore role identity.
I believe that women should dress feminely, and men masculine, and both modestly. I believe that a dress covers the womenly form much better, and in the end provides a message of femine traits, as well as modesty.
Take a look at the bathroom signs at any store or restaurant. Apparently in our day and age, still a women in a dress means female and a man in pants means male..... I have yet to see a women's restroom with a picture of the woman on the door in pants.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Make sense?
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